Actual WWII gun-cam footage.. German

[JB73]

well i came away from this film differently than most of you i guess...

first off there is that guy with the sig. " NO b17 ever fell to 1 pass..."  whatever it was shown in this movie. did you miss the B17 that went into a flameball (pls dont try and say it survived that)

also i believe alot of the planes you saw never made it home. if you watch closely there was mutiple engine damage on almost all of them. those fighters weren't trying to popcorn the bombers just bring them out of the bomb run.

when the german cameras left the view of the bombers mostly there was alot of smoke pouring out. IRL a bomber with 2+ engines didnt last long before it fell outta the sky or was picked off by a lower fighter. (dont even try and use "memphis belle the movie" to state otherwise) lol

also did anyone else see the bomber where all the gunners and stuff were bailing out?

id say overall these were some very deadly engagements.

PS as far as that P47 goes.... i can say it almost definatelt didn't make it far like some others above think.

that major hit it took on the wing root showed that fuel and smoke was coming out of there + the wing control wires were surely damaged.


oh well my 2¢

[weazel]

How easily the 190A8 seemed to stay on the LA-5s six, haven't seen that in any flight sim to date.

[Shane]

Originally posted by JB73
PS as far as that P47 goes.... i can say it almost definatelt didn't make it far like some others above think.

that major hit it took on the wing root showed that fuel and smoke was coming out of there + the wing control wires were surely damaged.

oh well my 2¢

notice the cool self-sealing fuel tanks on that jug's wing? if he managed to break off from the fw, i wouldn't be surprised if he made it quite a ways back toward home, if not all the way home.

who knows, we didn't see what happened afterwards.

i *did* note to my horror, that some of them lw experienced "nose bounce"   lol.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Weazel, probably because that was a La5.. not F or FN.
-SW

[BGBMAW]

No easy Days- Gun Camera Footage WW2


The most disturbing aerial footage i have ever seen and i have atleast 30 + hours of tapes...

The thing that kills me the most i sthe sawing bak and forth of our b-17's...omg....my heart slows down,.,,

There is also a pasrt where there is a microphone..u can hear the 110's cannons start to fire,,then he lets all cannons start to go...

Wow  talk about a Mitsu sound package..its amazing...

boom --- boom ---boom

then its boomboomboomboomboombooomb oom all cannons on...

hard to beleive thsi was happing on such a massive  scale...God bless all of them..

BiGB

[MRPLUTO]

rv6--  Thanks for posting this link.  One thing:  I don't think that 190 comes out of the spin with a lucky angle on a 51...I think the camera got turned off and then back on for the head on attack on a different (?) plane.  Also, the P-38 isn't being vulched on landing...I think he's involved in a ground attack.  Note the "newbie" 190 that cuts in front trying to "steal" the kill!

******

Grendel:  There was a Tupolev SB-2, but I can't find anything about a DB-3.  What is that?  It's not the SB-2, which had a rather high wing, and probably would not have carried the external bomb or drop tank seen here.  Another possibility is that it's an early model Beaufighter with a horizontal stabilizer with no dihedral (slanted up).

******

rv6 points out that the Luftwaffe pilots seem to use their rudders to hit many parts of each bomber.  I use just the opposite tactic:  when I get a bead on an enemy buff I try to put all my shots into one place.  Also I don't attack from dead 6 often!

******

Looking at this, perhaps lethality should be reduced a bit in AH.



MRPLUTO  VMF-323  ~Death Rattlers~  MAG-33

[Tuborg]

Just for the record. I bought this tape over the internet in the US in 1999 ( i forgot the name ) on VHS, grapped it to DV, eddidet it down to about 8 minuets( alot of the original  material is looking realy bad), encrypted it into an mpg1 and  videostreamed  it on my companys server. It was never intendet to be on for such a long  time, but  me and the other employees forgot all about it. If you have more of this stuff on VHS and want it public , please e-mail me, I've got alot of free serverspace left.


Cheers

[illo]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Weazel, probably because that was a La5.. not F or FN.
-SW

La5 doesnt turn any worse thasn la5FN.

[Hawklore]

sad, got ADSL and waitng for it to D/l what was yer d/l time its been about 4-6 mins now, 70% done..






[edit] lost track of time 8-12 mins i think

[JB73]

Originally posted by BGBMAW
There is also a pasrt where there is a microphone..u can hear the 110's cannons start to fire,,then he lets all cannons start to go...

Wow  talk about a Mitsu sound package..its amazing...

boom --- boom ---boom

then its boomboomboomboomboombooomb oom all cannons on...

where do you hear this ...

ive watched this 5x with sound all the way up and never headr anything?!?!?!!!?

[fffreeze220]

Originally posted by BenDover
thats cos guncam are slowed down so you can see what they were doing

Nope o dont think so.
Its more that AH isnt what it was in reality.
In AH we pull every G we can to evade regardless what will happen.
In reality its upon the Pilot how many G he can do and for what time.
Also we are sitting in front of a screen in a warm room with a beer or coffee beside the joystick.
WE can get the max out of our plane ALL the time.
Thats what real life pilots seldom did.
For the gunnery thing n the B17 i would say that the attacks was on the way home. The gunners where either dead or fighting damages inside the plane.
I dont think they shoot back in the film.
But if they shot back, a single B17 wasnt the worst problem for a fighter.
Image these boys sitting in minus 40 degrees celsius with thick gloves feared like hell and have to shot with 50 cal at a plane that pass by with allmost the double speed and shoting 20 or 30 mm bullets.

All we wannabes have not the little clue about through what hell these boys go.
We click the 1 holding the lazerpointer guns of our AH buffs on the fiter press the trigger and in 50% he makes boom after a 1 sec long burst

Its really funny we talking like we flying combat for years.
I bet every 1 would piss in his pants if he has to face a combat situation..

As for the P47 can some 1 tell the model ??
Its amazing to see it is not outturning easy the FW.
In AH u would have broken up allready to beginn to rope him.
In real life ( and this cant be porked) he was owned by that FW.

[wulfie]

Looking at the silhouette I'd say DB3 = Douglas Boston III.

Mike/wulfie

[Grendel]

Originally posted by MRPLUTO

Grendel:  There was a Tupolev SB-2, but I can't find anything about a DB-3.  What is that?  It's not the SB-2, which had a rather high wing, and probably would not have carried the external bomb or drop tank seen here.  Another possibility is that it's an early model Beaufighter with a horizontal stabilizer with no dihedral (slanted up).

MRPLUTO  VMF-323  ~Death Rattlers~  MAG-33

No. DB-3 is DB-3.

Iljushin DB-3.

Google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ilyushin+DB-3%22&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0

[Purzel]

Originally posted by MRPLUTO
rv6--  Thanks for posting this link.  One thing:  I don't think that 190 comes out of the spin with a lucky angle on a 51...I think the camera got turned off and then back on for the head on attack on a different (?) plane.  Also, the P-38 isn't being vulched on landing...I think he's involved in a ground attack.  Note the "newbie" 190 that cuts in front trying to "steal" the kill!
******
rv6 points out that the Luftwaffe pilots seem to use their rudders to hit many parts of each bomber.  I use just the opposite tactic:  when I get a bead on an enemy buff I try to put all my shots into one place.  Also I don't attack from dead 6 often!
******
Looking at this, perhaps lethality should be reduced a bit in AH.

First, there was no killstealing in rl. Only when the enemy is shot down he is no danger anymore. Not a second earlier. So if there were 5 planes involved in someone bringing down iots ok as ong as this guy goes down for sure.

Second, I dont belive in RL the structural failure to the MG and cannon rounds were as common as they are here. I believe in most cases, the pilot or motor got killed, or something cought fire. The lethality is quite high in AH. But if it was to be toned down, would it be better?

Prolly not. You will very selldom shoot someone down AND make it home alive. You would mostly have to follow the victim to deck to finish him off. By then his buddys would show up and kill you afterwards.

And if the lethality was adjusted, the Me109 with the 30mm would see a gret deal of action, because the hit hard enugh in RL for one shot kills. Like hispanos here now.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Purzel
First, there was no killstealing in rl. Only when the enemy is shot down he is no danger anymore. Not a second earlier. So if there were 5 planes involved in someone bringing down iots ok as ong as this guy goes down for sure.

First, if was killstealing in rl. When gun cameras were involved some pilots used to fire at dammaged\going down planes just to get it on cammera and then claim. I do not remember the souce, but I defenetly read about it.

Originally posted by Purzel
Second, I dont belive in RL the structural failure to the MG and cannon rounds were as common as they are here. I believe in most cases, the pilot or motor got killed, or something cought fire. The lethality is quite high in AH. But if it was to be toned down, would it be better?

Usually it required 3-5 30mm or 10-20 20mm hits to bring down b17. It was in Heinz Khoke war diary. That is what we have in AH.