Author Topic: Affirmative Action (Read 6292 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #240 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:00:17 PM »

heres the deal... some things in life are racial. Asians are smarter than whites in some areas... jews are the smartest of all... black people have denser bones. get over it. You aren't helping anyone if you force people with low math skills into math skill intensive jobs... you won't get good boxing matches if you use afirmative action.... You won't get good swim meets either.

The bell curve is correct. That is not to say that there are bright and talented people of all races... perhaps we shouold be spending the effort in helping all "gifted" people of any race and leave the race part out.

Get rid of the public schools and put in vouchers... continue the trend toward fast paced "specialty" schools that concentrat on "trades"
lazs

AKIron · « **Reply #241 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:04:03 PM »

MT

Thanks Kanth

AKIron · « **Reply #242 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:13:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
heres the deal... some things in life are racial. Asians are smarter than whites in some areas... jews are the smartest of all... black people have denser bones. get over it. You aren't helping anyone if you force people with low math skills into math skill intensive jobs... you won't get good boxing matches if you use afirmative action.... You won't get good swim meets either.

The bell curve is correct. That is not to say that there are bright and talented people of all races... perhaps we shouold be spending the effort in helping all "gifted" people of any race and leave the race part out.

Get rid of the public schools and put in vouchers... continue the trend toward fast paced "specialty" schools that concentrat on "trades"
lazs

I disagree Lazs, the difference in smarts is much more cultural than racial. Culture/environment tells a child what's important. I think it's been demonstrated many times that if a society encourages education and disciplines it's youth then there is little if any difference between any human races. Of course nutrition is an important factor in developing intelligence.

lazs2 · « **Reply #243 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:25:41 PM »

believe what you want iron. Fact is... we need certain skills for certain jobs. So far.... we have found that various races and even the genders, have different skills. To pretend that this is not happening is foolish and counter productive. I don't believe in forcing a square peg into a round hole or.... pretending that those who do have mechanical ability.

Do what you want but I will continue to insist on jewish doctors, lawyers and comedians for me personally.

you can have asian drivers and white heavyweight boxers and english cooks and black swimmers if you like.
lazs

midnight Target · « **Reply #244 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:35:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

Do what you want but I will continue to insist on jewish doctors, lawyers and comedians for me personally.

you can have asian drivers and white heavyweight boxers and english cooks and black swimmers if you like.
lazs

Asian Drivers -

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Chinese driver Franky Cheng, of FRD Motorsports, captured first place in the Formula Renault category with a time of 28:44.086. Second place went to young Filipino driver Enzo Pastor of Team T.E.C., who clocked in at 29:33.905.0, followed by Hong Kong's Kenny Chun of FRD Motorsports who clocked in at 29:54.485.

- from the Asian Formula 3 circuit.

White Heavyweight- Like Marciano?

English Cooks - Tough one, but I like the 2 fat Ladies.

Black Swimmers - Anthony Nesty, Suriname, won the 100 fly at the 1988 Seoul olympics, clocking 53.00 -- .01 ahead of the USA's Matt Biondi and Anthony Ervin, University of California and Phoenix Swim Club, 2000, won gold in the 50 free and silver in the 400 free relay at the Sydney Games.

StSanta · « **Reply #245 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:44:01 PM »

Lazs, 'smarter' in that context is socio-economic and cultural conditions, not 'race'.

A black and a yellow lab aren't exactly two different races.

Kanth · « **Reply #246 on:** January 21, 2003, 02:02:35 PM »

lazs2 · « **Reply #247 on:** January 21, 2003, 02:38:19 PM »

who cares if some asian driver manages to win the special olympics of F1.. or that some white guy could be a heavyweight champ when they didn't let blacks many in. or... that some english guy somewhere learned that chicken could be cooked without boiling it... Much better to generalize. you will be wrong less often and... I did say... help the gifted of all races but.... you can't make someone gifted. There are exceptions to any generalization and I have no trouble accepting that but... The differences are real not "socio economic" that is crap.

I don't care why the scores come out the way they do. If the scores reflect what is needed to do the job then the low scoreres should do us all a favor and try another field.
lazs

midnight Target · « **Reply #248 on:** January 21, 2003, 02:49:37 PM »

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If the scores reflect what is needed to do the job then the low scoreres should do us all a favor and try another field.

Trouble is the tests do not perform the function intended, they just discriminate.

SAT tests for example are a terrible indicator of success in college (there are plenty of links showing this). High school grades are a much better indicator of college success. Funny thing is, women tend to get higher grades in high school, while men score better on the SAT.

lazs2 · « **Reply #249 on:** January 21, 2003, 02:57:55 PM »

MT.. are you saying that there is no relationship between hig SAT scores and good grades in school? Seems that a lot of those afirmative action guys with low SAT's, that couldn't figure out what a regatta was also couldn't get past the first year.
lazs

midnight Target · « **Reply #250 on:** January 21, 2003, 03:01:20 PM »

Do I have to dig up the studies or are you gonna take my word on this one?

SAT scores are such a poor predictor of college success that even when combined with high school grades the prediction doesn't improve upon grades alone.

Gunthr · « **Reply #251 on:** January 21, 2003, 03:33:50 PM »

The Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution says that, "no state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".

About that passage the Supreme Court wrote: "The rights created by the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment are, by its terms, guaranteed to the individual. The rights established are
personal rights.... Equal protection of the laws is not advanced through indiscriminate imposition of inequalities.

Kanth · « **Reply #252 on:** January 21, 2003, 04:15:25 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030121/4794964s.htm

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Front-line troops disproportionately white, not black Numbers refute long-held belief

So that makes:

) the military
) some professional sports
) hate crimes

it's hard to make proper smores without adequate heat.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #253 on:** January 21, 2003, 04:22:09 PM »

does anybody remember 'the golden rule' from pre-school days?
surely you remember the "do unto others as you would have others do unto you?"

in other words if what you are doing to others would piss you off if they did it to you, then it's wrong.

minorities would be pissed if we gave bonus points or special treatment to whites when applying for work/school. and rightly so. this would be wrong. and if this is wrong then it would also be wrong to give special consideration to minorities, (we call that AA).

it's not really that hard to understand if you just open your eyes. my kids could understand this at about the age of 2.

"did you take her cookie?, would you want her to take your cookie?, then don't take her cookie. taking other peoples cookies is wrong. no it's not ok, just because you are hungry or want it"

simple, right?

if it's wrong for one person to do something it's wrong for others too. It is even more wrong to allow people to break the rules based on their race, that is racism.

Thrawn · « **Reply #254 on:** January 21, 2003, 04:56:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
does anybody remember 'the golden rule' from pre-school days?
surely you remember the "do unto others as you would have others do unto you?"

Yeah, and the reason AA exists is to redress the fact that white people didn't follow this rule for decades.

You can't wave a magic wand and just say, "Abracadabra, racism is gone.", and it is so. The damage done by decades of racism must be fixed some how. Or at least the attempt must be made to fix it.