Author Topic: Affirmative Action  (Read 5905 times)

Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2003, 04:13:01 PM »
what if they had gotten here in chains in 1720 and lived that way till 1865 would that really be the same ? on of the single worst analogys i have ever seen.

indentured/slave

employee/livestock

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2003, 04:15:39 PM »
Quote
I think reperations are stupid and racist...unless I can get me some. j/k
- MrLars



Good point, MrLars. And for your service in Vietnam. (My brother and I enlisted together in 1968. He went there. I didn't.) There are other examples of the hardships of the Irish and other peoples as well.

I know the Chinese also had a tough time, although they were not taken into slavery. I confess that I don't know the entire history of the concept of Reparations in the USA. I do know about the Reparations that have been paid to Japanese Americans interned and had property seized in WWII.  

However, in terms of displaced, defranchized peoples during WWII, America stands out as a pretty damned good place to be, don't you think?

But I have a feeling that we will soon know more about Reparations to black people.... because if you believe in Affirmative Action, logic dictates that you believe in Reparations, and its apparant that a significant number of people believe in Affirmative Action.


As MT would say: "The sins of the past were horrible, the cure may be painful. Bummer."

However, I disagree on very sound principle.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2003, 04:32:23 PM by Gunthr »
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Offline MrLars

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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2003, 04:32:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
what if they had gotten here in chains in 1720 and lived that way till 1865 would that really be the same ? on of the single worst analogys i have ever seen.

indentured/slave

employee/livestock


I don't want to get into a pissing contest of which is worse, afterall, some slaves had it way better than my ancestors as far as living conditions and treatment. The Irish were looked down upon even by some of the slaves of their time.

It was a bad situation for all that had no choice but to live like that or face the consequenses of flight, belittling any segment of that population because they weren't truly slaves neglects the misery of their predicament.

BTW, Slave ships and collars with chains is how a lot of the early Irish came to this country. The fact that by 1860 they were mostly free doesn't deminish the brutality of their treatment 100-120 years earlier.

Offline MrLars

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« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2003, 04:36:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr


However, in terms of displaced, defranchized peoples during WWII, America stands out as a pretty damned good place to be, don't you think?

 


The other side of my family immigrated here after WWI from Germany, so yes I do think that way.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2003, 04:42:39 PM »
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But I have a feeling that we will soon know more about Reparations to black people.... because if you believe in Affirmative Action, logic dictates that you believe in Reparations, and its apparant that a significant number of people believe in Affirmative Action.


Logic schmogic. The only logical connection I can see is that AA is a sort of reparation. Why would this mean that a proponent of AA is willing to go even further?

I think it is obvious that we need to ensure that those who have been denied entry in the past are assisted to the extent that they truely have an equal opportunity.

And as I have stated before, equal opportunity doesn't exist simply because someone says "OK, no more discrimination" duh!

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2003, 05:43:22 PM »
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Logic schmogic. The only logical connection I can see is that AA is a sort of reparation. Why would this mean that a proponent of AA is willing to go even further?
- MT

Well, I'm glad that you agree with me that AA is a kind of Reparation. You have just bitten right on the barbed hook that will soon be presented everywhere by Black attorney's and the American Civil Liberties Union, et al who will be soon demanding  Reparations

(Afterall, you have awarded Reparations to the Japanese Americans who were not brought here against their will to serve in slavery to white masters. And the Japanese' suffering was only for a short time compared to Blacks who as you may have heard, "built this country")

I myself do not believe in Affirmative Action, as a US citizen in the year 2003. Therefore, I don't fall prey to the Reparations argument that is growing louder.
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Flash Gordon

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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2003, 09:12:36 PM »
Hey, Gunthr - is that you?

What are you doing slumming over here (j/k)?  You actually PLAY this game?!?!

:D

Flash - ("-flash" in WB, "flash" in WWIIOL, "FLASH02" in AH)

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2003, 10:17:58 PM »
Flash! Good to see you here, man! :)

WARBIRDS SUCKS.

(I'm not that imposter over at Warbirds. Gunthr is my real name, unlike that other guy.) I came over from WB years ago.

Hope you stick around Flash :)
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Flash Gordon

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« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2003, 01:25:31 AM »
LOL - I'll probably stick around.

Thought you were my buddy and ex-squadmate from WB.

Hehe.



Flash

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2003, 10:01:37 AM »
afirmative action lowered my opinion of black people who favor it.
lazs

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2003, 10:31:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Often the testing used to set the qualifications was racist or biased.  


I've heard this argument before MT but I've never heard anyone explain how the testing is racist, specifically, not in vague general terms. Can you do that or are you just parroting the party line?

Also, how would you make the tests different? Remember, the tests must discriminate somehow, there aren't enough seats for everyone to go to whatever school they may want.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2003, 11:02:19 AM »
Biased Tests:



                               SAT

Total Test-takers: approxomately 1.2 million
Of whom approximately 54% are female

                                                             Verbal    Math    Total
American Indian or Alaskan Native         480      483      963
Asian, Asian Amer., or Pacific Is.             498      562     1060
Black or African American                       434      426      860
Mexican American                                  453      460      913
Puerto Rican                                          452      447      899
Hispanic/Latino                                      461      466      927
White                                                     526      528     1054
Other                                                     511      514     1025

Males                                                      509      531     1040
Females                                                 502      496      998
ALL TEST-TAKERS                                   505      512     1017

less than $10,000/year                    427      446      873
$10,000 - $20,000/year                    451      463      914
$20,000 - $30,000/year                    477      482      959
$30,000 - $40,000/year                    495      497      992
$40,000 - $50,000/year                    506      509     1015
$50,000 - $60,000/year                    514      518     1032
$60,000 - $70,000/year                    521      525     1046
$70,000 - $80,000/year                    527      532     1059
$80,000 - $100,000/year                   539      546     1085
more than $100,000/year                   559      572     1131


Now look at the coorelation of income to test scores. The higher your income, the more likely that you will be able to take SAT prep courses, attand private schools etc.

The discrepancy between male and female scores is likely due to the speed vs. sustained reading portion of the exam, and the multiple choice format. Both favor a males ability to visualize spatial relationships while failing to give credit for a female's ability to sustain read and form cognitive opinions.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2003, 11:18:33 AM »
MT, do you not think the tests are designed to test for skills needed for the curriculum at the schools in question? Maybe the schools should change their curriculum? Or maybe the potential student should find a school that more closely matches his/her apptitude?

All you posted were results of the tests. Results do not demonstrate how the questions are race biased. Please continue.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2003, 11:22:06 AM »
BTW MT, are you mocking Hammy with your sig? It was Newton, not Einstein that said the thing about the equal and opposite reaction.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2003, 11:31:46 AM »
School entry should be a random drawing held in the last semester of Senior year.

Number of "winners" for each school equals the number of freshman slots available.

Winners go to school, losers go to work.

What could be more fair than that, eh?

If you flunk out first semester, you can't enter any more drawings. :D Off to the workforce with you!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!