Author Topic: mp3'ers beware (Read 4560 times)

SaburoS · « **Reply #120 on:** June 29, 2003, 01:23:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Saburos,

You obviously didn't get the idea what I meant with the 'murders' sentence.

It SIMPLY and ONLY means the height of wanted status of a criminal.
Aka first priority to find music pirate, over the other crimes - to make my point it wouldn't help anythign even if it would be this way and all the piratism would be cut away.

Obviously some people have problems with understanding and only reads it as it suits their flaming post - the way it was never meant to.

No where was I COMPARING it to a murder, however some people here obviously did compare it to a murder just to suit their flaming policy.

I understood exactly what you meant by comparing severity of one to another.
However you've been missing my point entirely by bringing up the car stealing comparisons. Re-read my examples and quote them directly and you'll see in those cases the owners wouldn't of had direct losses in those cases (empty seats for next flight/performance) so those that sneak in for free (without permission) to fill those empty seats shouldn't be prosecuted for theft/tresspassing? I was using other than mp3s to get the point across of how silly some of the "justification" arguments/reasons have been.
I have been saying from my very first post that downloading COPYRIGHTED anything (without the permission of the copyright holders) and then benefitting from using/listening/enjoying those materials and then not ever paying for it IS THEFT.
I brought up specific examples dealing in other than MP3s to show you how silly the justifications were.
Nash has got it exactly right.

Quote

Go ahead and pirate tunes, just stop arguing about it as if you're right.

To which I'll add:
If you get busted (odds are it will only be a small fraction of downloaders) for your downloading, don't blame anyone but yourself.
BTW, who brought up the "murder" comparison? Would that be the same person as the "car stealing" comparison? Oh, I know, that would be you.

Vulcan · « **Reply #121 on:** June 29, 2003, 02:00:56 PM »

So SaburoS whats your response to the RIAA members who participate in price fixing, monopolisation, and anti-competitive behaviour?

I hope you and Nash and sending them emails lecturing them on theft too

Fishu · « **Reply #122 on:** June 29, 2003, 02:44:20 PM »

really serious theft indeed... hah

Nash · « **Reply #123 on:** June 29, 2003, 02:50:58 PM »

Yeah that stuff went on Vulcan... (just got settled in Oregon). And they are *far* from saints, no question about it. But does that mean that all bets are off and from here on out the record companies oughta give CDs away for free? Does this mean that Microsoft should make *their* software free for download? How about all the other companies who've been busted for something? They might as well all throw in the towel and go out of business?

It's clearly an issue for the courts, not a license for everyone to start stealing from them.

Vulcan · « **Reply #124 on:** June 29, 2003, 04:30:08 PM »

As I said before Nash I don't 'steal' the whole lot. I do have a vast CD collection at home, and I do buy CD's I think are of value.

However, screw them if they think I'm gonna lay out my money for some of the crap infested CD's they force down our throats. And its hardly like their 'clients' are on the street starving.

The RIAA also likes to 'pad' its figures, did you know music piracy figures on lost revenue include the CDs that go out the back door of the factories?

People have been copying music for ages, whether it be MP3s or audio casettes. Things haven't changed that much.

Many musicians have also come out on the side of the MP3/Napster argument, saying that a lot of music gets coverage that normally wouldn't.

Now Nash, as far as 'copyright' issues go, can you please explain the source of your avatar?

Fatty · « **Reply #125 on:** June 29, 2003, 04:37:01 PM »

As an 'old purchaser' I don't download near as much as i used to record from borrowed LPs in the days of cassettes.

And yes, in my opinion it is breaking the law, and I treat it with all the seriousness of a 55mph speed limit.

Nash · « **Reply #126 on:** June 29, 2003, 06:31:48 PM »

Well maybe my argument isn't as much to do with you as much as with people who seem to think there's absolutely no wrong-doing involved with pirating MP3's, to the point where they feel *entitled* to getting music for free.

Like I said earlier - I too pirate MP3s.... a *lot* of them. My CD buying has gone from 60-80 a year to around 30. I just think it's silly to raise all these defenses where the pirating has become some personal jihad against the big bad record companies. Like this one:

"...screw them if they think I'm gonna lay out my money for some of the crap infested CD's they force down our throats."

I think that and arguments like it are silly... They force CDs down people's throats? I think it's about free toejam and the excuses people make to feel better about it all.

OIO · « **Reply #127 on:** June 29, 2003, 07:13:39 PM »

Until I can pay for what I WANT to buy , downloading will be a better choice.

paying for 18 songs in a CD because I only like 1 song. Then having to pay for the same songs in the next 4 or 5 albums from the same group just because they put another new song i like on said album.

Wouldn't it be great if record stores just had a CD-burner and a direct T1 connection to the record companies and you could just custom-make your own CD and then pay for it?

Problem is, them record companies have their foot too deep up their arses for that. The internet is here and there is *no* way they can stop file sharing short of bringing down the internet OR turning the government into a gestapo state.

Vulcan · « **Reply #128 on:** June 29, 2003, 07:43:16 PM »

Nash, you still haven't answered my question about your avatar?

And I do still buy CD's, its not just about 'free toejam'.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #129 on:** June 29, 2003, 07:43:44 PM »

The majority of MP3s I have are either free from the artist's website, or I own the CDs for.

The few songs I have that are neither free from the artist's website, or on any of the CDs I own - could just as easily be recorded from the radio, and through a tapedeck that plugs into the soundcard, could be turned into mp3 format. Granted, at a lower kilobit (not byte) rate - but whatever, in many cases the difference is moot... the song can be gotten for free.

In the later case, that simply can not be called "theft" - otherwise I'm certain there would be a lawsuit against companies that make tape decks because they allow for a record from the radio function.

I'm not trying to justify my position, but it is necessary to show to many people the realities of the digital genre. It is what it is, and simply because someone downloads 6, 600, 6000, or 6000000 mp3 formatted songs - its simply bulltoejam that lawsuits can be processed on a basis of a person's digital downloads.

What we have here is an example of something very nazi-esque.
-SW

SaburoS · « **Reply #130 on:** June 30, 2003, 02:19:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
So SaburoS whats your response to the RIAA members who participate in price fixing, monopolisation, and anti-competitive behaviour?

I hope you and Nash and sending them emails lecturing them on theft too

How many times are we going to have to go around in circles on this?
I've already answered that question.

Bottom line is this:
Benefitting from someone else's copyrighted materials without payment or permission is theft. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

DO YOU FINALLY GET THAT POINT??!!

Any reasons brought up so far trying to justify that theft, doesn't wash.

This is probably what will happen. If anyone gets arrested(probably detected by a hidden code in the music file) and convicted the following:

1) Downloading the files for free and not selling/sharing the files:
paying a fine of the full retail price(what the single cd price or album price if no single exists) of each song file on your system or in your cd/mp3 collection.

2) The above plus: If allowing others to share in the files of music stored in your computer: Above fine plus possibly an additional huge fine on their calculation of how many files were taken from your computer.

3) Add to the above: If you also actually started making money (making cds and selling them): Epect the above fines but add a huge $ amount. also jail time.

The judges in these cases will be making huge examples of the first group caught.

The real question you should be asking yourself is this:
Do you think the above will happen to you if caught?

Look up copyright laws and the infrigment of those laws.

Good luck.

midnight Target · « **Reply #131 on:** June 30, 2003, 02:32:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SaburoS
How many times are we going to have to go around in circles on this?
I've already answered that question.

Bottom line is this:
Benefitting from someone else's copyrighted materials without payment or permission is theft. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

DO YOU FINALLY GET THAT POINT??!!

Come on, it is hardly that black and white. Is taping a song off the radio illegal? How about a movie from HBO? What exactly is "benefitting"? The only difference between a TIVO recording stuff off the air and a computer recording stuff off the internet is method of transmission.

Eagler · « **Reply #132 on:** June 30, 2003, 02:41:29 PM »

if the musical "artist" of today had talent - I don't think they'd be half as paraniod about their sales, with or without mp3's...

"copyrighted materials " - copyrighted noise in most cases

Fishu · « **Reply #133 on:** June 30, 2003, 05:01:34 PM »

With all these arguments, we can conclude that Saburos also thinks it as reasonable for music artists to hijack internet domains which connects to their artist name distantly.

Anyway.. why dont we just see how happy people would be if we apply $500 fee for every illegally owned song and the law well enforced.

Would there really be any winners?

Vulcan · « **Reply #134 on:** June 30, 2003, 08:42:41 PM »

Hey SubaroS, how but this then.

Go down to your local music shop, and try buying CDs from either Pacifier, Tadpole, or Stella*

Lets see how well you do.