US dirty tricks to win vote on Iraq war

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Dowding
Take pride in your ignorance. Ignorance makes you strong.

I don't think knowledge lost is ignorance but anyhow what good is a language from an insignificant soon to be forgotten country? I'll likely never travel to France or Canada and most people in New Orleans speak english, sorta.  Anyhow I've replaced it with far more useful information like all the MSDOS commands.

[Ping]

Actually Toad: The ommision of the quartering of Berlin was unintentional. I just wanted to point out that Having the US, British and the French inside their borders would be a thorn.
 
My main point still stands however. Germany played the role of a Buffer Zone between NATO and the USSR
NATO was for the defense of Europe. However If their ever was a war, Germany would have been wiped out. Nukes would have been used. That has BUFFER written all over it.
 
I agree with you, the line was drawn in the sand. It was all about stopping the Communist expansion. But what would have happened if the USSR invaded?
 Germany was going to fall and most likely to Nukes. The President even said that Nukes would be used.

[AKIron]

You're right on the money Toad. It was our presence there that stopped the USSR from swallowing all of Europe.

As to a buffer zone, maybe, but a buffer zone that was full of Americans willing to die to prevent the domination of the Soviets. We put enough people there to ensure the USSR knew it would be all out war if they breached the line. A strategy that worked quite well.

Wabbit said it clearly a while back. To paraphrase: It's human nature to resent and/or deny a debt or obligation that cannot be repaid. Or something like that.

[Naso]

Interesting reading that doc, Ping.

So what we were unofficially told was the "secret" official plan too.

It's scaring that, for example, I had to bring a nuke on, say... Venice with my F104, hours after the initial scramble.

No hope for my countrymates.... and I would have been their murder.

Damn, war IS hell.

[Ping]

Just to clarify: I have not  suggested, said, or implied in any way that Americans would not fight or die in the conflict.

[Naso]

Originally posted by AKIron
You're right on the money Toad. It was our presence there that stopped the USSR from swallowing all of Europe.

As to a buffer zone, maybe, but a buffer zone that was full of Americans willing to die to prevent the domination of the Soviets. We put enough people there to ensure the USSR knew it would be all out war if they breached the line. A strategy that worked quite well.

Wabbit said it clearly a while back. To paraphrase: It's human nature to resent and/or deny a debt or obligation that cannot be repaid. Or something like that.

AKIron, I your berserking wiev of Anti-Americans everywhere, you missed that nobody said that only Germans or Italians or whatsoever could have died, nobody denied the presence of strong garrisons of US troops willing to die defending Europe (the future glass parking lot) and USA (same destiny in a full scale Nuclear War).

Oh, Ping already answered, anyway I'll leave the post as it is.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Naso
AKIron, I your berserking wiev of Anti-Americans everywhere, you missed that nobody said that only Germans or Italians or whatsoever could have died, nobody denied the presence of strong garrisons of US troops willing to die defending Europe (the future glass parking lot) and USA (same destiny in a full scale Nuclear War).

Oh, Ping already answered, anyway I'll leave the post as it is.

Guess I should have taken Italian, can someone translate please?

[Naso]

Ouch!

[AKIron]

Just teasing you a little Naso, I think I got the gist of your message.

[Habu]

Originally posted by straffo
ROTLFMAO

The "spelling" argument ...

Take care Cabby you're becoming to be a one-liner with argument and it canno't be possible ....

Gotta love Straffo. He disputes every piece of credible evidence against France but then defends this crappy piece of propaganda.

[blitz]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Noch einmal müssen wir bitten, ", was tut den Irak mit.einbeziehen den Angriffen von September 11, 2001?" Können Sie den Iraker unter den 911 Terroristen numerieren? Wie über den Saudi?

;-)  Regards Blitz



America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

[funkedup]

Originally posted by Ping
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/documents/episode-9/04-01.htm
Germany in a full scale attack from the USSR would have been wiped out, with much of western Europe. It would bring Nuclear weapons into play from NATO. Would that not be buffer against Soviet aggression?
Seems were playing with words here.
Oh yes I must be PC.   All Airmen in the Airlift faced horrendous conditions and I admire them for that.



Purpose for edit: I have no problem seeing that the US rebuilt Germany and that their presence had a major impact on their economy. But I think as adults here we should be able to point out that US government policy is not always Altruistic.
I would like to apologize if I have left the impression that I am Anti-American, as I really am not. Just cant stand the Administration.

A nuclear exchange in Europe likely would have grown to involve strikes on the USA as well.  

Put another way:  The USA was willing to risk total annihilation of our country to protect western Europe from Soviet invasion.

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

Think abou this before you belittle America's efforts to keep Europe free during the Cold War.

[blitz]

Originally posted by Ping
I am really tired of hearing how America saved Germany from the Communist horde.
 Germany was a Buffer Zone. End of story. In any attack from the USSR, Germany would have been trampled but giving the USA time to Regroup and retaliate.
It wasn't about saving Germany, It was about having a forward base of operations.

Sadly enough, you're right.

Which area would have been destroyed by using short range nuc missels and nuc attillery?

That has been the the worst war strategy ever for Europe !

And after all things  have been melted in center Europe, Russia and America would have been come to the conclusion that it's might be time to stop this now before their homelands get hurt.


Massive attack doctrin was a lot better than this Flexible response toejam ( only for Eupope, of couse).


Regards Blitz



America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

[funkedup]

Footnote: This email was originally transcribed with English spellings standardised for a British audience. Following enquiries about this, we have reverted to the original US-spelling as in the document leaked to The Observer.

Yeah right.

Much more likely story:

The guy who fabricated the email used the Queen's English.
They posted the story, somebody pointed out that it couldn't have been written by an American, and they went into cover-your-ass mode and made up the BS about transcribing blah blah audience blah blah reverted blah blah.

[funkedup]

I am really tired of hearing how America saved Germany from the Communist horde.

*shrugs* If the truth bothers you I can't help you.

Germany was a Buffer Zone. End of story. In any attack from the USSR, Germany would have been trampled but giving the USA time to Regroup and retaliate.
It wasn't about saving Germany, It was about having a forward base of operations.

It wasn't about saving Germany?  What was it about then?  What was the forward base of operations for?  Why did US taxpayers spend trillions to station troops overseas?  To what end?  We could have done some great things at home with all that money and manpower.