Author Topic: Women in war (Read 2482 times)

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #45 on:** March 27, 2003, 12:57:44 PM »

Can't replace trust with hate, as lack of trust just means "I don't want that guy in my foxhole." Hatred means, "I'm gonna lynch that Golly-geen ****** at nightfall."

That's just how it was in the 30s and 40s- btw, integration didn't occur until the Korean war. WWII was high segegrated, only after individual combat units proved their worth did it become mutually accepted by both sides that regardless of color they fight just as hard and are as good to cover your back. I never said women wouldn't be able to do the same thing, the problem is with the men being overly protective of the women.

You simply can not draw parallels between sexes and races.

The illusional differences in races present in the minds of whites during those early years have proven to be nonexistant.

The differences between males and females, well- to this day the majority of it has held true.

Women who got to their position by overcoming the same trials and tribulations as their male counterparts are very much competent in their job. The problem comes into play with the men, something that most are ignoring here.

Segregated racial combat units proved their worth and gained mutual respect. *A* man would give his life for his buddy/buddies in the trench regardless of race.

In the case of women, *MANY* men have given their lives for *A* woman.

Miko- I'm talking about THIS society, and men will almost always go out of their way to protect women. You just can't overcome billions of years of natural instincts.
-SW

Kanth · « **Reply #46 on:** March 27, 2003, 12:59:40 PM »

LOL ya, and you did after the college entrance debate when the last women's suffrage thing came up, although I was pretty sure the similarity was blindingly apparent then..

now look what you've done

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Originally posted by midnight Target
LOL... you expected me to keep quiet?

Kanth · « **Reply #47 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:02:35 PM »

but we shall.

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You just can't overcome billions of years of natural instincts.
-SW

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #48 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:07:49 PM »

As a guy- you deck a women in a bar and your gonna have a whole lot of pissed off dudes on your ass.

As a guy, you deck another guy- it'll either be broken up or you'll get your bellybutton kicked by him and his buddies, but that's where it will end.

Try as you might, you can't erase instincts.

To this day, we still have wars based on territory or greed.

People still fight for stupid reasons, and lose all rational thought in the process.
-SW

Kanth · « **Reply #49 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:23:30 PM »

way back in the day...in a bar, if a black man walked in, he'd have a bunch of guys pissed off at him too...

hindsight is 20/20, I'm sure no one ever thought there would be racially equality for whatever reasons until it happened and now we know how wrong things were in the first place, it's taken for granted.

funny looking back on things and you will see how monumental some changes were at the time they occured.

that's the thing about history, we look at it from today's perspective and don't truely get it.

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
As a guy- you deck a women in a bar and your gonna have a whole lot of pissed off dudes on your ass.

As a guy, you deck another guy- it'll either be broken up or you'll get your bellybutton kicked by him and his buddies, but that's where it will end.

Try as you might, you can't erase instincts.

To this day, we still have wars based on territory or greed.

People still fight for stupid reasons, and lose all rational thought in the process.
-SW

Elfie · « **Reply #50 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:31:53 PM »

Why do people ignore the history of the Israeli Army in regards to having *coed* combat units? I didn't know about those *coed* units having higher casualty rates, but I did know about unit cohesion breaking down when women became casualties. Men can't handle seeing a woman killed.

Other countries have tryed this, it does not work. Why do we need to try this? To prove that History was correct? Or just so that we can be viewed as Politically Correct?

Some women are most certainly qualified to be in combat units, but we have more than enough men to fill those positions.

Elfie
Armageddon Pile-it

HiTech give us Napalm

miko2d · « **Reply #51 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:32:07 PM »

lazs2: miko... we have to deal with reality... Your theory sounds good about "freedom" but the reality is that gender squews the equation every time.. I personaly believe that's how it should be.

True - but it is better to have an arrangement where nature assures what "should be" rather than to have an arbitrary restriction to counteract another arbitrary perversity.

Sometimes (often, IMO) it makes sense to fix the cause rather than try to ameliorate the symptoms - even if it takes more effort.
A movement for "more humane treatment of slaves" would have been much less painfull and easily accepted than an outright ban on slavery.

But there is no doubt the roots had to be fixed there, not the consequences.

miko

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #52 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:34:11 PM »

Ah, whatever.

Race and sex are two entirely different deals.

Kanth, you load yourself up on testosterone for 2 years...
MT, you load yourself up on estrogen for 2 years.

We'll see how similiar you behave in 2 years. (And yes, estrogen/testosterone DO have mental effects at many different levels)

Men will always protect women, this is a natural instinct- you see it all the time in the animal world.

Racial discrimination was a process that was inflicted on us by previous generations. This can not be seen in the animal world- A red shar-pei will get a long with a black/fawn/whatever shar-pei just the same. A domesticated short hair house cat will get along just fine with a domesticated long hair house cat. I could keep going on, but I think you get the idea.

I know what I say won't change your mind, and vice versa... but I can't elaborate on this any further if it can't already be seen.

You are forcing the similiarities of race/gender. They aren't similiar in any sense. One is by nature, the other was taught.

Now I must go beat a lady on the head and drag her back to my cave, then go hunting while she cleans the kitchen and makes mashed taters.
-SW

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:35:31 PM »

race is not gender. sorry mt... race doesn't enter into every aspect of life. for most of us anyway..

truth is...the vast majority of women don't want the "opportunity" to fight in combat units. I sure bet kanth isn't gonna be thanked as a pioneer if they were suddenly subjected to the draft and put into combat because of her efforts..

Let's make it real simple... wulfie hit on it... do any of you think that it is a fitting goal that men and women be treated equally so far as violence is concerned? Should men, in the interest of equality, be able to punch out women who verbally abuse, get into their face or.... literaly strike them?

Is this the goal that we should be so enlightened about that we reverse thousands of years of nature? Will the results be what we want?
lazs

Kanth · « **Reply #54 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:52:04 PM »

Here a little example from my home, we have 4 cats.

I have one male one female. If one of the other cats would attack one of mine or make any move of aggression he/she would be facing two pissed off cats together shoulder to shoulder and have to deal with them.

the female does not hide and cower behind the male hoping that he will protect her, they both have claws even though her brother does outweigh her by a good 10lbs, she is very close to the other two cats weights and can take care of herself just fine.

some more information, altho my male is large he cannot see very well, she can see fine, he has good judgement for blocking, she is lightening fast..they are complementory and an outstanding team.

they both have something valueable to give in their own defense and there is no law in their specie that disallows the female from self preservation and so they are stronger because of it.

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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe

Racial discrimination was a process that was inflicted on us by previous generations.

This can not be seen in the animal world- A red shar-pei will get a long with a black/fawn/whatever shar-pei just the same. A domesticated short hair house cat will get along just fine with a domesticated long hair house cat. I could keep going on, but I think you get the idea.
-SW

miko2d · « **Reply #55 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:55:00 PM »

AKS\/\/ulfe: Race and sex are two entirely different deals.
Men will always protect women, this is a natural instinct
...
Racial discrimination was a process that was inflicted on us by previous generations.

Technical correction - apprehension of strangers that are different is also a natural instinct. May be not as strong and easier to neutralise but as based in our genes as anynother.

This can not be seen in the animal world- A red shar-pei will get a long with a black/fawn/whatever shar-pei just the same.

I cant' believe you do not know the dogs do not have color vision!

miko

Kanth · « **Reply #56 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:00:04 PM »

This isn't a truth anymore than you don't want the opportunity to be rich is.

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Originally posted by lazs2

truth is...the vast majority of women don't want the "opportunity" to fight in combat units.
lazs

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #57 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:04:56 PM »

I do know dogs do not have color vision, they can still detect tone though.

Lighter green= different color, I can't believe you didn't know that.

And that's why I threw cats in there, they can see color. Albeit very fuzzy at distances, it's crystal clear up close.

Kanth- And there lies the difference, cats don't have guns or grenades. If the male cat could think, and the other cat has a gun... he will push the female cat out of the way and fight. It happens ALL the time with humans.

A man in any species will come to the aid of his lady. In humans, we can think and men are naturally more protective of all women because of this.

I'm not saying women are weaker in their job position, so long as they went through the same trials and tribulations as a man.

I *AM* saying men are naturally protective of women, and in the past this HAS led to more deaths in combat units.
-SW

miko2d · « **Reply #58 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:07:39 PM »

AKS\/\/ulfe: I *AM* saying men are naturally protective of women, and in the past this HAS led to more deaths in combat units.

Maybe they are not protective enough of their male mates?

miko

Kanth · « **Reply #59 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:10:05 PM »

okay you came back to post and yet you brought no taters to share with the class.

because something happens all of the time (for example murders, rapes, the killing of children and pets) doesn't make it acceptable.

cats don't have guns or grenades (weapons also known as equalizers)

I can guarentee you that if the female cat had a grenade launcher, the male cat wouldn't be pushing her anywhere.

cats aren't stupid.

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I do know dogs do not have color vision, they can still detect tone though.

Lighter green= different color, I can't believe you didn't know that.

And that's why I threw cats in there, they can see color. Albeit very fuzzy at distances, it's crystal clear up close.

Kanth- And there lies the difference, cats don't have guns or grenades. If the male cat could think, and the other cat has a gun... he will push the female cat out of the way and fight. It happens ALL the time with humans.

A man in any species will come to the aid of his lady. In humans, we can think and men are naturally more protective of all women because of this.

I'm not saying women are weaker in their job position, so long as they went through the same trials and tribulations as a man.

I *AM* saying men are naturally protective of women, and in the past this HAS led to more deaths in combat units.
-SW