Author Topic: Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy  (Read 5743 times)

Offline Arlo

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2003, 12:45:19 PM »
Borada say: Your media lies! My media is truth incarnate! Always has been that way. Always will. With respect. Comrade Dufus.

So there!

Links? Sources? We don' need no steenkin' links or sources!

Offline Boroda

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2003, 12:45:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
I have asked you specifically for evidence of this.  You have none.

Odd that half of the crap you spew is without evidence, yet the rest of the world is wrong.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/06/iraq/main548005.shtml

It's a Western "politically correct" version.

I just used google to find it.

I can provide you with dozens of links in Russian, you think it should help?

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2003, 12:48:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Russians informed "coalition" command about their route. They were guaranteed they will have a secure passage. I doubt they could have asked for helping to evacuate them by air - you know, it's dangerous to land a chopper in Baghdad, they fall down there every day.

What they were trying to hide? I don't know, but what they COULD hide? A brand new Apache shot down from a bb-gun?

Why Syria - it's obvious, Jordan is controlled by US forces, and Syria is still neutral and will not let any stupid sergeant search diplomatic stuff. Iran - I doubt it's closer then Syria if you want to get to Russian diplomatic mission and a safe airport.



You have PROOF that the Russians informed the coalition of their route and the time of their passage? Oh, and once they got out of Baghdad, they could have asked for and gotten air evacuation. And choppers DON'T go down every day, despite the fact that YOU happen to be hoping and wishing they would. And since the U.S. has pretty much had their way in the air in Iraq, had the Russians requested safe and secure transit and air cover, there is little doubt it would have been provided. Of course, I'm sure you don't believe the Russians could have gotten a secure line with the U.S. and given the JSTAR or AWAC planes their coordinates to make sure they were safe.


Regarding the Apache, it's kind of a smoking hole in the ground, and was the same day it went down. Try again. Oh, and show us the BB gun.

The U.S. military would not search diplomatic pouches or property, they are not nearly so stupid and arrogant as some of the Russian soldiers you've had the "priviledge" to know. Jordan, by the way, is NOT controlled by the U.S., get better information Boroda.
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Offline Martlet

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2003, 12:50:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/06/iraq/main548005.shtml

It's a Western "politically correct" version.

I just used google to find it.

I can provide you with dozens of links in Russian, you think it should help?


Nice link, particularly where it says:

Quote
It was unclear whether U.S. or Iraqi forces were responsible for the attack Sunday

Offline Boroda

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2003, 12:57:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

Ramzaj suffered from a huge credibility problem.  One day, they reported 50 Americans killed in one ambush, and another three units lost somewhere else.  When it became apparant that these numbers were completely out of sync with the official numbers of coalition dead, they tried to cover their butts by stating (on 4/1/03):

"The official coalition losses are, to put it mildly, 'falling behind' the actual figures. The 57 dead acknowledged by the coalition command reflect losses as of the morning of March 26. This information was provided to a BBC correspondent by one of the top medical officials at a field hospital in Al Kuwait during a confidential conversation. 'We have standing orders to acknowledge only those fatalities that have been delivered to the hospital, identified and prepared to be sent back home. The identification process and the required standard embalming takes some time – occasionally up to several days. But only the command knows how many casualties we sustained today and you will learn about it in about three days…'"

And yet here we are, far more than three days later without any indication of the massive numbers of coalition dead indicated in the reports.  Just how long does it take to embalm someone anyway?  This smells like horsecrap to me.




Well, I think you have some ideas on how US deals with casuality numbers. I don't know about soldiers body count, but aircraft  combat losses are minimised by different tricks. For example: when the AC is shot down and falls down on friendly territory it's not a combat loss...

I doubt that real losses are as high as Ramzaj wrote, but there still can be some surprises. So far Russian milhistory enthusiasts at http://www.vif2.ru make their own counts, and they are only a little more then official numbers.

Ramzaj's "reports" were a great attempt to show the war from the other side, a nice information warfare move. Believe me, many people from all over the world believe him rather then Western media, and it's a serious victory over agressors.

Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

Oh, gosh, I don't know... maybe the picture of a massive nuclear explosion and the headline "Nuclear Blast Near Baghdad" indicating something that happened rather than something that could happen?

Also the fact that the article has nothing at all to do with nuclear explosions could have something to do with it.  I doubt that a Tomahawk missile would initiate a nuclear reaction that would set off some massive nuclear blast even if it did smack into a mountain full of uranium.


You have enough yellow press in the US too. Journalists are mostly uneducated persons with great ego, and they can speak aboutt things they don't understand at all. The picture of a blast and a title are standard attractors used in second-rate newspapers. BTW, the article itself is almost believable. They speak about a Chernobyl-like accident, not about a nuclear explosion.

Offline Boroda

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2003, 01:20:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
You have PROOF that the Russians informed the coalition of their route and the time of their passage?


Do you think Russian diplomats are idiots to leave a sieged city without informing intervents?

"Coalition" forces admitted they were informed. But later they said they weren't. And then again admitted.

Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts

Oh, and once they got out of Baghdad, they could have asked for and gotten air evacuation. And choppers DON'T go down every day, despite the fact that YOU happen to be hoping and wishing they would.


I doubt they could afford taking a ride on an American chopper. Safer and more reliable to take their own cars. And probably Syria will not let US ACs to enter it's airspace, even can open fire att hem.

Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts

And since the U.S. has pretty much had their way in the air in Iraq, had the Russians requested safe and secure transit and air cover, there is little doubt it would have been provided. Of course, I'm sure you don't believe the Russians could have gotten a secure line with the U.S. and given the JSTAR or AWAC planes their coordinates to make sure they were safe.


Well, I simply don't believe they could even think of asking for such assistance. Just because it's not a proper thing to do. Especially when they can inform US command and go by themselves, not looking like cowards.

BTW, looking at the hysteria on this board, and knowing that public here is mostly better educated and more intelligent then average - I myself could be very cautious about asking for assistance.

Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts

The U.S. military would not search diplomatic pouches or property, they are not nearly so stupid and arrogant as some of the Russian soldiers you've had the "priviledge" to know. Jordan, by the way, is NOT controlled by the U.S., get better information Boroda.


JFYI: I am from a military family, in fact I am the first "civilian" in 3 generations. So don't you tell me about stupid and arrogant Russian soldiers. My Grandfather was a cavalry Lieb-Dragoon officer in WWI, volunteered after graduating from Warsaw Univercity. My Father is a retired colonel of engineering service, Doctor of Technical science and a professor.

Offline Boroda

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2003, 01:25:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Nice link, particularly where it says:


I doubt that they will give you a complete picture with a complete Russian point of view. For them it's unclear.

How about links in Russian? Are you ready to read them? I can provide you with all kinds of views on that accident, from pro-Western to absolutely politically-incorrect anti-american paranoid crap from commies. I hope you understand (I still hope!) that this accidend gor much more coverage here then in your "free press".

Offline AKIron

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2003, 01:46:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I doubt that they will give you a complete picture with a complete Russian point of view. For them it's unclear.

How about links in Russian? Are you ready to read them? I can provide you with all kinds of views on that accident, from pro-Western to absolutely politically-incorrect anti-american paranoid crap from commies. I hope you understand (I still hope!) that this accidend gor much more coverage here then in your "free press".


It was reported in our "free press" and given the amount of attention it deserved. Which is to say not a lot considering the other events taking place.

Why do you suppose Russia may have given Saddam sanctuary? Possibly to keep him quiet about any illegal trade conducted during the sanctions? Or maybe they hope to reinstall him once his loyalists have regained control.

I suspect Russia will remain secretive about his presence if they do in fact have him. And, if that's the case he'll likely never be heard from again once it's clear that Iraq will never take him back.
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2003, 01:46:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Well, I think you have some ideas on how US deals with casuality numbers. I don't know about soldiers body count, but aircraft  combat losses are minimised by different tricks. For example: when the AC is shot down and falls down on friendly territory it's not a combat loss...
[/B]

Most reports I've seen list total coalition fatalities and casualties without regard to their causes.  This number currently stands just above 100 deaths.  That means that classifying those killed in a helicopter crash as non-combat losses doesn't matter, because they're still counted among the total war dead.

I do know from talking to a friend (and fellow AHer) who's stationed in Germany providing medical attention to injured coalition soldiers that the casuality figures provided by CENTCOM appear accurate regardless of their causes.  This would run entirely counter to Ramzaj's claims.

Quote
Ramzaj's "reports" were a great attempt to show the war from the other side, a nice information warfare move. Believe me, many people from all over the world believe him rather then Western media, and it's a serious victory over agressors.
[/B]

So believing obvious lies is a serious victory over aggressors?  Clue me in to how that one works.

Quote
You have enough yellow press in the US too.
[/B]

Certainly.  The trick is to triangulate news coverage by utilizing numerous sources.  There are many excellent news outlets in America and the West that do not deserve your blanket dismissal simply because what they report runs counter to your expectations.

Quote
BTW, the article itself is almost believable. They speak about a Chernobyl-like accident, not about a nuclear explosion.


Except, of course, for the picture of a nuclear explosion and a misleading headline that suggests otherwise.  I also find it unlikely that Iraq has that much enriched uranium just sitting around.  Unless, of course, somebody sold it to them in violation of UN sanctions?

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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2003, 01:47:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Do you think Russian diplomats are idiots to leave a sieged city without informing intervents?

Do you REALLY want me to answer that?

Quote


"Coalition" forces admitted they were informed. But later they said they weren't. And then again admitted.

[/B]
According to you and your government.

Quote


I doubt they could afford taking a ride on an American chopper. Safer and more reliable to take their own cars. And probably Syria will not let US ACs to enter it's airspace, even can open fire att hem.

[/B]
Evidently, their cars were NOT safer and more reliable. Nuff said. Who said they HAD to go to Syria? And I doubt Syria would be so stupid as to fire on U.S. aircraft.

Quote


Well, I simply don't believe they could even think of asking for such assistance. Just because it's not a proper thing to do. Especially when they can inform US command and go by themselves, not looking like cowards.

[/B]


 No one would assume a diplomat was a coward for asking for  safe conduct and escort during a military conflict. It IS the proper thing to do.

Quote


BTW, looking at the hysteria on this board, and knowing that public here is mostly better educated and more intelligent then average - I myself could be very cautious about asking for assistance.

[/B]


The only hysteria on this board is yours. I'd say you are indeed correct, the public here does appear to be better informed and educated than you do. The fact that you would not ask for safe conduct and escort in the middle of a military conflict, especially when there have been so many incidents of one side using human shields and masquerading as civilians says a lot.

Quote


JFYI: I am from a military family, in fact I am the first "civilian" in 3 generations. So don't you tell me about stupid and arrogant Russian soldiers. My Grandfather was a cavalry Lieb-Dragoon officer in WWI, volunteered after graduating from Warsaw Univercity. My Father is a retired colonel of engineering service, Doctor of Technical science and a professor. [/B]


For YOUR edification my family has a long history of military service as well, both past and present. If you would prefer that no one insult the Russian military, perhaps YOU should have the common sense to keep your mouth shut instead of saying "some stupid sargeant" would attempt to search a Russian diplomatic pouch. In otherwords, if you don't want to be insulted, STFU and keep your insults to yourself, and you won't get insulted. If you cannot discuss the issues without insulting others, don't get all upset when someone takes exception to your insults and returns the favor.

By the way, how about you answer my previous post regarding why Poland can do the right thing and help clean up the mess in Iraq, but Russia can't? Or is that won't? Or can you not provide the rest of the world with an honest and factual response without embarassing yourself and your country?
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline john9001

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2003, 01:47:59 PM »
i don't know what your govt told you , but Chernobyl was not a nuclear explosion.
the cheap russian reactor overheated and blew up the containment building made of inferior russian concret.

Offline Kanth

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2003, 01:58:24 PM »
Gotta love these headlines

Quote


BRITS: SADDAM SURVIVED

CIA: SADDAM DEAD

Russians: Not at Embassy...



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Offline Reschke

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2003, 02:01:54 PM »
From Boroda's link:

While this is not the entire article it is indicative of what happens in war.

Quote
The Russian convoy was fired upon as it headed out of Baghdad toward the Syrian border, injuring at least four. A journalist in the convoy said it was caught in crossfire while passing Iraqi positions near the city's outskirts.


Later in the article they say the convoy was flying a Russian flag. Well sometimes you can't help but fire at the wrong time. Maybe some pre-planned mission was about to kick off when the russians drove out between the two positions. Hell its happened in war before why can't it happen again.

So Boroda go back to pirating WB on FreeHost and leave this group alone.

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Offline Boroda

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Al Jeerez reporting that Saddam is in Russian Embassy
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2003, 02:04:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Why do you suppose Russia may have given Saddam sanctuary? Possibly to keep him quiet about any illegal trade conducted during the sanctions? Or maybe they hope to reinstall him once his loyalists have regained control.

I suspect Russia will remain secretive about his presence if they do in fact have him. And, if that's the case he'll likely never be heard from again once it's clear that Iraq will never take him back.


Russia will never give Hussein any kind of shelter. At least I hope so.

In current time we have a certain degree of idiotism in politics. I am 100% sure our commies will shout out loud that we have to protect Saddam from "evil imperialists", forgetting that he murdered all Iraqi Communists in mid-70s. But I think that our "Kremlin dreamer" has at least some common sence.