Author Topic: For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)  (Read 10152 times)

Offline MOSQ

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #165 on: February 10, 2005, 09:23:13 PM »
I'm 100% for it.

Offline streetstang

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #166 on: February 10, 2005, 09:42:54 PM »
The horse isn't just dead.

Its long since rotted away.

The beauty of this game is that anyone can come into this game and fly just about anything they want from the ww2 era. With a little time and work, they wont have to wait long to fly some of the higher priced perk planes.

Basicly all you guys have done is whined about the faster planes running away from a slower better turing plane.

But you'll scream till you're blue in the face about how I'm wrong and how it's wrong to let a newbie have a fast plane and how its wrong to just let these 51s run around with bombs and not fight. ect ect ect ect.

Get over it already.

Offline mechanic

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #167 on: February 10, 2005, 10:56:05 PM »
agreed 99%

just perk the spitIX also and its complete.

its way better than a Nik2 and probably out classes the La7 IMO.

perk heavy bombers too, a newb will have to do some A20 work to get enough for the Big Ugly Flying F***ers (BUFFs)
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Offline Blue Mako

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #168 on: February 10, 2005, 11:56:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by streetstang
The horse isn't just dead.

Its long since rotted away.

The beauty of this game is that anyone can come into this game and fly just about anything they want from the ww2 era. With a little time and work, they wont have to wait long to fly some of the higher priced perk planes.

Basicly all you guys have done is whined about the faster planes running away from a slower better turing plane.

But you'll scream till you're blue in the face about how I'm wrong and how it's wrong to let a newbie have a fast plane and how its wrong to just let these 51s run around with bombs and not fight. ect ect ect ect.

Get over it already.


What's wrong with trying to improve gameplay?  Why do you think the perk system is there if not to influence who flies what and when?  Obviously HTC have recognised a need to impose limitations on plane choice.

You said it yourself, with some time and effort almost all can afford to fly the perked aircraft anyway.  This post is not about keeping planes away from people, it's all about using the perk system to get people to treat the aircraft as something other than an insta-respawn BFG for HO'ing and/or porking toolsheds.

It's a positive attempt at improving gameplay, if you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

Offline Urchin

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #169 on: February 11, 2005, 12:06:32 AM »
It'll never happen.. if 3 years of the same 6 planes being in the top 6 hasn't made that perfectly obvious.

Offline thrila

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #170 on: February 11, 2005, 05:08:14 AM »
Mechanic the spit V is a better plane than the spit IX for use in the MA.  Perk the spit V!:D ;)  I would also rate the n1k marginally better than the spit IX, the la7 being far superior than both.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2005, 05:18:38 AM by thrila »
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Offline streetstang

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #171 on: February 11, 2005, 06:22:29 AM »
How will it improve game play?

If you think that you better define your definition of "game play".

If game play is of the 1 Life to live category then you cna throw game play right out the window. All there will be is a bunch of scared 51d's who dont want to die to lose their perks. No matter how large their bank of perks is, they'll always do anything they can to get out of trouble and stay safe in a perk ride.

Its taking chances, pushing you and your planes limit and sometimes dying is what makes the game what it is.

Those 51's who climb to 20k to drop bombs most often wont turn and run home. They continue to loiter over the field, play in the ack trying to pork troops, ammo or get a vulch and then die. Perking the D is going to force them into making 1 pass, dropping their bombs and running home period.

I dont know where, or how you think this silly little system will help game play. But it'll do everything to ruin the bigger picture.

Its like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound and thinking everything's fine.

Offline TexMurphy

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #172 on: February 11, 2005, 06:55:55 AM »
Morpheus

What you are describing is exactly how every single perk ride we have now is flown.

If everyone who flies a D Pony today will stay in a D Pony then you are mostlikely right. But if they will swich to the B Pony then....

As we have seen so far in player behaviour most people dont fly perked planes. Just every now and then. Which would be an indicator that people would swich from D to B Pony if the D got perked, from LA7 to LA5 if the LA7 got perked, ect, ect...

What this would do to "improve" game play is that it would add veriaty to what you see in the skies. Note that I say "improve" and not improve. This because improvement is subjective.

Some people dont see it as improvement to have more veriaty of planes in the air. Some people only see improvement in BETTER planes.

Personally, for me, its more fun if I fight 20-30 different plane types during a gameing session then just 5-6. Why? Because I have to think more as each plane has to be fought differently.

Problem though is that there will always be a *best* plane.

The posiblity is there that everyone, his grandma and her ceramic eyeball will fly SpitVs. But in a way I do see that as an improvement. You vets might say what you want about the SpitV (dweebfire what ever) but I do respect the SpitV pilots, they fight.

Tex

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #173 on: February 11, 2005, 07:11:26 AM »
Quote
If game play is of the 1 Life to live category then you cna throw game play right out the window. All there will be is a bunch of scared 51d's who dont want to die to lose their perks. No matter how large their bank of perks is, they'll always do anything they can to get out of trouble and stay safe in a perk ride.


 People will cower over 3~5 perks?

 Or, even if that's true, what's the difference? The MA is already full of P-51s and La-7s and Fw190D-9s and Bf109G-10s who don't want to die to lose their perks. Might as well slap a perk on and at least see less of them in the air, wouldn't you agree?


Quote
Its taking chances, pushing you and your planes limit and sometimes dying is what makes the game what it is.


 Except people don't like dying even if most all the planes are free. If everybody in the MA agreed to your definition of 'gameplay' then we'd not be seeing the same 4~5 planes boast 40~50% usage for something like 2 years straight.

 People will always try to run away in the fastest plane they can fly in. That's a given fact in the MA. So, if it must be the way it is, might as well limit people from getting their mitts on those planes in the first place and make them fly something slower for a change. Ofcourse, not by applying a super penalizing perk cost, but by applying a light cost: the goal is to come up with a price that people wouldn't be so jittery about as if they were flying a Tempest, but still penalizing enough if they continuously lose their planes at a very fast rate.

 Newbies and average players, who incidentally make up 80~90% of the arena, will be able to fly these 3~5 perk point planes something like once or twice in every five sorties. That means majority of the people in the MA will be flying the '44/'45 superplanes 60~80% less than they use to.

 Imagine an MA with 60~80% less P-51Ds, Fw190D-9s, Bf109G-10s, La-7s, N1K2s, and etc etc.

 That's the 'better gameplay' I've envisioned, when I first came up with the NPA long time ago.

 
Quote
Those 51's who climb to 20k to drop bombs most often wont turn and run home. They continue to loiter over the field, play in the ack trying to pork troops, ammo or get a vulch and then die. Perking the D is going to force them into making 1 pass, dropping their bombs and running home period.


 Probably. But perking the P-51D will also make them fly less P-51Ds in the first place - don't forget about that.

 If someone really likes the P-51s, then they always have a perk-free alternative: P-51B.

 So what you are saying is true. If HTC perks the P-51D, for example, at 4~5 points, they will be doing one drop on the field and be going home, like you say. However, it will also mean that most of the "P51" icons you see in the air would be P-51Bs, not P-51Ds.


Quote
I dont know where, or how you think this silly little system will help game play. But it'll do everything to ruin the bigger picture.


 Perhaps. Or, it could cure the Bore-'n-Zoom fundamentally.


Quote
Its like putting a bandaid over a bullet wound and thinking everything's fine.


 A band-aid is probably better than just leaving the wound wide open and letting it rot.

Offline Jackal1

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #174 on: February 11, 2005, 07:41:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa

 Probably. But perking the P-51D will also make them fly less P-51Ds in the first place - don't forget about that.

 If someone really likes the P-51s, then they always have a perk-free alternative: P-51B.
 


  OK. What I would like to know is why it bothers you that people fly P51-Ds and how it affects your enjoyment?
  What plne/planes do you ususaly fly?
I`d also like to know what makes you think that people who enjoy flying the P51-D would pick the B as an alternative.
To me there is no comparison. A lot of it has to do with history. A lot has to do with the feel and capability.
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Offline Magoo

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #175 on: February 11, 2005, 08:43:50 AM »
Gentlemen, I think the reality is that if you want a game setup the way you describe it in this thread, then you will need to start your own company and design it yourself. We will then see who knows the customer best, you or HTC. I reserve judgement at the moment.

Magoo
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Offline 68racer

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #176 on: February 11, 2005, 09:50:57 AM »
I strongly disagree!  This is why good pilot's have enough perk points to use that all they would fly is the perk planes.  A average to beginer player would be stuck flying these slower and second to best aircraft.  This gives the guy that is already better than average a better chance for easier kills. What is 5 to 15 perk points to someone that has 1000 plus perk points.  I do think the ar234 is over perked, if you notice you very seldom see one flying around bombing a base.  Perk price for a 262 is 50% to much I do agree.  This leaves  only the better than average pilot flying them which is a disavantage to the average and less.  which is the same point i was trying to bring out about the other planes you guys are talking about perking.  This is just my opion which means nothing so don't take it to heart.
68racer:aok

Offline 68racer

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #177 on: February 11, 2005, 10:03:10 AM »
If you guys want to talk about making a change eny value should be the issue.  My vote is for eny to be banned.  I like fighting against equaly valued planes not a 205 against a spit 9.  It is two easy of a kill.  Even if where out numbered I hate to see another country's eny go up.

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #178 on: February 11, 2005, 10:21:12 AM »
Quote
OK. What I would like to know is why it bothers you that people fly P51-Ds and how it affects your enjoyment?
What plne/planes do you ususaly fly?


 Well.. maybe it has something to do with all of those 'veteran comments' about how the MA has transformed into a 'Bore N' Zoom' arena. You know, the "all I see in the game are Fw190D-9s, P-51Ds, La-7s, and Typhoons. All these guys do are BnZ all day long.. and when they find a co-alt plane they will run straight to their horde from 15k to deck" stuff.

 So I figured if the usage of those late war planes can be dropped down to a certain level, and the overall usage of '42~'43 planes can be dramatically increased, it would be helpful to the situation since the overall margin of absolute performance for the mid-war planes, isn't as drastic as the late-war planes.

 I was kinda envisioning more P-47s, Fw190A-5s, 109G2 and G6s, La5FNs, C.205s, F4Us, Ki-61s and etc etc..


Quote
I`d also like to know what makes you think that people who enjoy flying the P51-D would pick the B as an alternative.
To me there is no comparison. A lot of it has to do with history. A lot has to do with the feel and capability.


 By perking them.

 Most people in the MA barely manage a 1:1 kill/death ratio. Thus, if a P-51D is perked at about 3~5 points, they will have to fly about two~three sorties in some other plane to earn the price needed to fly a P-51D once. The price isn't jaw-droppingly high as the Tempest is.. it's just a small burden that could catch up if one is too careless.

 When I made the initial list of planes that should be perked, I thought a lot about how this would be different from the RPS. A RPS system totally limits a person from flying his favorite plane. I didn't think that was the right step to go.

 If you dig up the original list in the very first post, you would see that most of the planes are post '44 latewar planes with midwar versions in the game - such as P-47s, P-51s, 109s, 190s, etc etc..

 So, a P-51 fan wouldn't be totally blocked from flying his plane. If he can manage a positive perk balance he can fly it indefinately. However, if he cannot do that, all he has to do is fly an alternative mid-war variant of that plane for a couple of sorties and he'll be able to quickly earn enough perks to fly his favorite again. With a bit of exaggeration, all he has to do is take up a mid-war plane and go HO two~three people and he'll get the points he needed to fly his favorite.

 
 
 ..

 However, the real reason I made the NPA was in the fact that it could diversify the roles in the MA. This was my true intention.

 The MA is full of late-war planes, which are also most usually multi-role planes. The Mossies and 110s are mostly hangar queens, unless some devoted fan makes up a mission featuring them. A-20s, IL2s, Ju87s and etc etc.. are virtually useless in the MA. There isn't any need to use any of the mid-war buffs or jabos, because a single P-38L or a P-47D-40, or a P-51D-20 still carries more ordnance than any of those dedicated groundattack/jabo planes.

 So, I figured, why not give those planes its role back?

 If a late-war plane is perked lightly, it won't cause too much grief if someone lost the plane, but it'll still sting a little. If the usage of late-war stuff drops, the chances of mid-war jabos and bombers becoming competent in the MA would increase greatly. For instance, if the post '44 planes are perked, the Mosquito comes within 10th place of the fastest non-perked ride in the game.

 In any case I thought this would benefit the MA more than it would hurt it.


 Anyhow, like Magoo said, it's just a dream for now.

Offline Halo

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #179 on: February 11, 2005, 10:26:02 AM »
So ultimately speed is the issue.  

Just put governors on all planes and limit top speed to 300 mph. :rolleyes:
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