Author Topic: PERK the BIG FOUR this tour!!! (Read 2812 times)

Terror · « **Reply #30 on:** June 13, 2003, 05:17:22 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
So, it seems to me that perhaps another factor here is that these 4 are a bit tougher to B&Z and thus your interest in perking them. I'm sure you would deny this ever crossed your mind, however.

This is true, this did not cross my mind. These planes are no different than any other when B&Z'ing in a TEMP or F4u-1. I actually target the faster planes first though when I enter a battle area. Especially the LA7 or P51d (followed by the TYPH then 190/109) because these have a better chance at removing my escape avenues during the fight. Their speed or turning effectiveness is mostly negated with a correctly performed B&Z though.

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Originally posted by Toad
25 perks free? Your generosity overwhelms; you'd allow a player to have 5 free La-7's? How long would that last a new guy?

I actually had that set to the newb factor to 100 free perks at first, but thought I would get yelled at for being "too generous" and changed it to 25. Just give them some to work with and then let them work to use these above average capable rides.

I agree that these planes do NOT have a *performance* advantage in the MA. I would just like to see the numbers balanced some. 40% of kills in the MA is TOO much popularity. Of course, that is my opinion, but it was HTC opinion to perk the F4u-1C when it was getting 15-20% of the MA kills. So I do not think HTC would be that opposed to putting small perks on these four aircraft because they are getting such a majority of usage in the MA.

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Originally posted by Toad
Bottom line is that HTC..... so far...... clearly doesn't agree with you. That's a good thing for the game, IMO. Keeps the new guys interested.

I would love to hear HTCs opinion on this subject. Both from a "player" perspective and a "business" perspective. It would probably quiet alot of the threads about plane perking in the BB when people understood HTC stance and method for determining perk aircraft. I have just the opposite feeling about how perking these rides will effect game play, I think by creating a larger variety of planes in the air, you will create a more varied fight and keep people coming back for more, rather than getting bored with the same thing over and over.

Terror

Karnak · « **Reply #31 on:** June 13, 2003, 05:20:10 PM »

Personally I think that a mid-1943 setup would be the best of all worlds. Just for the Pony boys, make it Dec. 1943 so they can get a free P-51B.

I would love to see the MA try this for a single Tour.

However, there are problems:

1) The Spitfire Mk IX is already the most popular aircraft, what effect will removing the other three have? It can't be good. Also, can the Spitfire Mk IX be effectively handled and contained with the other three of the big four removed?

2) The scarcity of appropriate US aircraft. We have no P-38 from 1943 or ealier for example.

I still think that a 1943 focused MA would be vastly more entertaining simply because the "do everything wonder fighters" would be controled and the speed would lower to the point that interesting aircraft like the Bf110G-2, A-20G, Mosquito Mk VI, Il-2 3M and Fw190F-8 would be much more useful and seen with much greater frequency. Undertilized fighters like the Ki.61, Fw190A-5, P-40E, P-51B, F4U-1, P-47D-11 and the Yak-9T would also be much more competive and therefore seen more frequently.

Obviouly these are guesses and I can't back any of it up, but I would love to see it tried for a Tour to see what would happen.

Toad · « **Reply #32 on:** June 13, 2003, 05:32:33 PM »

Hazed, Terror.....

The point is that the desire to "perk" planes that are basically unremarkable in performance is solely based on an opinion (apparently held by both of you) that you find the choices other players make to be "boring".

Perhaps they find your choices "boring"?

The core issue is that while there may be a performance reason for perking the jets or other "high performance/unbalancing performanc aircraft, there's absolutely no performance basis for perking these four.

It's simply a "preference" of yours that you don't want other players to choose so many of them.

If you can't see the problem with that idea......

........let me decide what YOU should fly from now on.

hazed- · « **Reply #33 on:** June 13, 2003, 05:47:38 PM »

Karnak the way you describe it it sounds like a rolling planeset which it obviously isnt. Everyone can fly the later varients if they pay the small perk cost.

Terror would you have trouble paying 2 or 3 perks to fly a 1945 aircraft?

we keep saying the poor newbie this or the poor newbie that yet the ones saying they dont like it are not newbies and I have yet to see a newbie who even cares he cant fly the me262 or arado.
They accept it as part of the game because....they are new to it!

anyhow we are drifting off the point a bit.

!) if these four aircraft are perked for small values of say 2 or 3 perks it doesnt have to stay that way. Once they cease to be the 4 most common aircraft in the game other aircraft can take their place on the perk table

Again i'll say it, people are assuming perking doesnt work and restricts play yet they are basing this on the use of aircraft like the tempest and me262. Aircraft that cost A LOT and have never really been changed/adjusted to see if their price is right.
The F4UC IS used by many newbies because its one of the first aircraft they can afford.Most find it too tricky to use but they still try it.
Do you see them complaining they cant afford it? NO.
Do you see too many of them in MA? NO.

Before we all write off perking as a usefull tool lets at least see it get a few REFINEMENTS.

lets keep the introduced perk costs real low so it hardly notices.Then add a point or two until we can afford to use them but choose to try a different aircraft for scoring. We shouldnt let the 25 to 200 perks prices we have now to influence your idea of what would happen.

These 4 wouldnt suddenly dissapear altogether.

Toad if we added 2 perks cost to an LA7 would it stop you flying it? I know the same cost wouldnt stop me flying the 190d9 when i wanted.Surely you must have untold perks available.who would it stop?

Ah yes the fellow whos just downloaded the game and is yet to fly 4 or 5 sorties! he wont be able to fly the la7 for what 16 hours?

these total newbies rarely care what aircraft is the current favourite. Once their 2 weeks are up they can surely get a few perks a day without much effort.Still your right if its bad of me to want a bit of a change to the MA then ok but i still say it cuts both ways.some will like it some wont and the only way to appease all of them is to keep things varied.I thought thats what perking was all about, instead it seems to be used at the moment to just keep the best british aircraft from dominating or the me262 from doing the same.To stop the high altitude ta152s being used as a fast heavily armed rammers?

just what is it the p51D and LA7 etc doing?

oh i see THATS different! ...right...i...er....see...

now dont get me wrong here but if it was my game and the choice is keep the guy on the free account happy for his 2 weeks and leave paying subscribers feeling bored OR keeping the game enviroment changing to keep PAYING subscribers happy and BARELY restricting the 2 weeker from flying a few planes I know what id choose.

Toad · « **Reply #34 on:** June 13, 2003, 06:34:45 PM »

Hazed, the basis for your argument is that you think you see/fight too many SpitIX/N1K1/La-7/P-51.

That is clearly a subjective opinion.

Lots of people disagree, in fact it appears the vast majority disagree... for whatever reason. HTC disagrees.... for whatever reason.

Could it be that this idea is simply bad?

Could it be that this idea is simply selfish?

Come up with some other reasoning besides "I think I see too many SpitIX/N1K1/La-7/P-51 flying around in MY Main Arena" and then there might..... might...... be something to discuss.

Your entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is. Clearly, there's a majority that don't agree.

Just look at all those folks flying free SpitIX/N1K1/La-7/P-51's.

Puke · « **Reply #35 on:** June 13, 2003, 07:45:36 PM »

As your rank improves in each category, those vehicles increase in perk prices. Player ranked #1 in fighters would be paying highly for the good stuff or forced to fly mediocre aircraft and the newb would have better access to the good stuff.

Karnak · « **Reply #36 on:** June 13, 2003, 07:52:21 PM »

Hazed,

Yes, of course the 1944 and 1945 aircraft would be available, they would simply be lightly perked like the F4U-1C.

Toad,

But how many of the people flying those aircraft are doing so only out of a desire to be competitive with their common opponents?

There is simply no way to know. I suspect many of them would be fine with an earlier time period, they would simply switch to different aircraft that are competitive in that earlier time period.

Terror · « **Reply #37 on:** June 13, 2003, 08:07:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Hazed, the basis for your argument is that you think you see/fight too many SpitIX/N1K1/La-7/P-51.

That is clearly a subjective opinion.

Lots of people disagree, in fact it appears the vast majority disagree... for whatever reason. HTC disagrees.... for whatever reason.

It's not a completely subjective opinion. The stats are objective. Almost HALF of all kills are to these four aircraft. (And they also make up the top 4 for deaths, BTW.) Doesn't that seem a bit unbalanced? Of 44 FREE planes, these four make up almost half of the air to air activity. To me, that is too many of these particular aircraft in the air.

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Originally posted by hazed-
Terror would you have trouble paying 2 or 3 perks to fly a 1945 aircraft? .

I don't have trouble paying 70+ perks for the TEMP let alone a few perks for an LA7 or P51d. But that is me, perks are not much of a deterent for my choices in aircraft. It's too easy to earn perks in planes like the F4u-1.

Terror

Toad · « **Reply #38 on:** June 13, 2003, 09:29:16 PM »

Karnak, and maybe they just fly what they like.

Perk is just a different aspect of RPS in a way. It's a restriction on what is available to fly. The community has been pretty adamantly against that. As they are in the various "perk this, perk that" threads.

Terror... your view of the stats is anything BUT objective. Who, besides a few people in this thread out of THOUSANDS of players, really cares which planes are "dying" the most?

I surely don't and I'm not alone. I simply DON'T CARE what other people fly. The various perking threads seem to show more folks like me than like you. By a wide margin.

In YOUR view which planes die most is important. To YOU. But that doesn't make the stat anything at all... except a stat.

A target is a target. If it makes you happy.. fly it. Because when I see ya, I just see a target.

bockko · « **Reply #39 on:** June 13, 2003, 11:50:43 PM »

Toad for president! well, maybe moderator of a barely used arena in AH

. But i agree 100% with his last thread. More choice, not less...more taste, less filling.........plus, don't forget what Adolph Galland told Goering: "i'd like 2 squads of spitties, some lala's, a group of alt monkey 51's, and a few of them Japanese Niki things....."

Karnak · « **Reply #40 on:** June 14, 2003, 12:20:10 AM »

Toad,

That is certainly a possiblity.

As I said, I'd like to see it tried for a single Tour and see what the results are.

hazed- · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14, 2003, 05:53:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Toad,

That is certainly a possiblity.

As I said, I'd like to see it tried for a single Tour and see what the results are.

not a unreasonable request i dont think and id like to see this too.If the results arent to everyones liking or it causes people to threaten to quit etc then just change it back

SlapShot · « **Reply #42 on:** June 16, 2003, 10:10:35 AM »

"Ah yes the fellow whos just downloaded the game and is yet to fly 4 or 5 sorties! he wont be able to fly the la7 for what 16 hours?
these total newbies rarely care what aircraft is the current favourite. Once their 2 weeks are up they can surely get a few perks a day without much effort"

Hazed ... thats a rather large leap there !!!

I don't know about you, but for the first month or two, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, nor find my SA and ACM bellybutton with both hands, and that was flying the Spit IX exclusivily.

To eliminate that ride from the newbie, and making the assumption that they will be able to easily obtain perks after the 2 week trial is a wrong assumption IMHO.

"not a unreasonable request i dont think and id like to see this too.If the results arent to everyones liking or it causes people to threaten to quit etc then just change it back"

Threatening is one thing, actually quitting before the time period ends is another. What would be the attrition rate ? Hard to determine ... you betcha. Maybe you and I would hang around to see the results, but if HTC were my business, I would not venture into this realm ... no way.

mia389 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 17, 2003, 04:28:12 PM »

that would be cool. Just perk the 51 and doras I would be happy. nikis and spits and lalas fight 51s and doras run

lazs2 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 18, 2003, 08:28:10 AM »

when I flew the dash 1a allmost exclussively... I would have agreed to the perk list.

the lala is death to Hogs unless the hog flys a really really really boring careful sortie. 51's fly really really boring sorties every time so they were annoying too... dee 9's could run away so they were bad too... spit 9's could do everything but roll and top speed better than the -1a so they needed perking too.
lazs