What has happened to AH?

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by Steve
What is considered a decent K/T?*

Depends on what you do. Past tour I decided to spend most of my time in long fighter sweep/CAP missions. The result was a poor K/T rewarded by a hi K/D. Actually, K/T score punish that kind of missions: CAP / F. Sweep.

[GRUNHERZ]

If you have both a very low K/T and a very low K/D then at least for that tour you sucked as fighter pilot - I think it's that simple.

You will likely get both scores low by using this weak dive and run away as somebody will always be higher and faster than you and you will be shot down beacuse you dont know how to fight agressivley anyway as evidenced by your choice of that tactic in the first place. And no, this dive, poor gunnery pass, and run away BS has nothing to do with E management, energy fighting or bnz fighting -  so dont think highly of yourself as some E-fighting Erich Hartmann reeicarnate. This tactic is simply a sad, stupid reflection of your lack of skill, which can be excused for lack of experience. Or it is a pitiful reminder of ones unwilinness to risk, learn, improve and move forward, which cannot be excused in any way.  So the choice is up to you.....

[BNM]

Don't be shy Grun, tell us what you really think.

[Creamo]

Hmmmm

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Batz
ccvi I dunno what the hell your talking about

Doesn't matter. One of the states in the US even defined PI as 3.2 by law...

A guy getting 12 kills per hour is fighting. a guy with a high kd and a high number of kills per hour is fighting.

Is fighting successfully, no doubt about that.

A guy with 2 kills per hour isnt fighting

... successfully. What makes you think he isn't fighting at all?

A guy with 2 kills per hour and a kd of .5 isnt fighting and when he does face the enemy more often then not he catch bullets.

With those stats he is involved in 6 fights per hour, winning 2, dieing in 4. The rest the time he has to spend getting back to the fight because of the many deaths.

They may not tell you about skill or ability but they show a clear pattern. 1 kill every 30 min is not fighting.

Imagine someone with a K/D of 0.5 (which isn't too uncommon) actually be fighting by your definition and getting 10 K/hr. If he did, that would mean he was getting killed 20 times per hour, or either shooting someone down or beeing shot down every 2 minutes.

See i can manipulate the numbers to.

You're making a good effort to try to.

__________________
Damn packet loss. He took so many hits that he should be going down in a fireball.

[GRUNHERZ]

ccvi:

Your K/D K/T interplation of "fight" frequency is innovative but flawed.

It is entirely uneccsary to engage in a fight for a K/D score to be figured, after you get some kills, because any crash death, like suicide jabo run on undefended target, will count against your K/D no matter if anyone shot you or fought you. So it is not an accurate factor in determing actual "fights" fought.

Basically if you got low k/d and low k/t you suck as a fighter pilot that tour - killing nothing and dying a lot. This is the result of this coward run away no skill never want to risk and lean tactic. Then just add suicide jabo runs they love to do and it gets worse.

If both k/d and k/t are high then youre doing really good.

If k/d is high and k/t low youre flying to live but still killing.

If k/d is low and k/t high youre a mad furballer at low alt gettin lots a kills fast but dying.

[Hap]

started playing when airwarror went belly up, what 2 to 3 yrs ago.  190's la7's then same now.  so as long as i've been playing there never was anything but b n z.  oh the alt the game was higher back then due to routine 25k buffing.

[BlkKnit]

Ya know, I can remember the big furballs, when I first started playing, some year and a half ago.  It was typical that it would flow back and forth between the 2 bases, and perhaps eventually either one side would capture or pork the enemy base or the fight might peter out.  But it seemed like those furballs lasted for hours.  You caould log on fly in the furball for a couple of hours, log off, mow the grass, wash the car, eat dinner, log back on and join in on that same furball.  I died a lot in those days.

Its the strat model / capture part that has made a good furball hard to find, IMO.  It seems to be more important these days.....why even the rooks are trying to win a reset or 2.

I need a new 'puter, cause a furball just kills my frame rate (we're talkin single digits here)

on the bright side:
K/D up to .8
K/H up to 3.6
(in fighters)

K/D in attack mode is .4 (those building ARE tough!)

[ccvi]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Basically if you got low k/d and low k/t you suck as a fighter pilot that tour - killing nothing and dying a lot.

You suck compared to the average player. Correct.

This is the result of this coward run away no skill never want to risk and lean tactic.

You draw the same wrong conclusion as batz does. A low score is not neccessarily the result of whimpy flying. If an completely unskilled player stays in a fight he's going to get killed. If he tries to run he's also going to be killed. No big difference score wise.

The point of not learning anything has nothing to do with score - many posts indicated that the training system in AH just plain sucks.

Then just add suicide jabo runs they love to do and it gets worse.

Those can affect score. But like everthing that can affect score: It is impossible to tell why a score is the way it is.

To see a bad score and then decided that that player is a runner is wrong in two ways. Running does have no big impact on score, and even things that do have a big impact on score can't be distinguished from other things that also have a big impact by just looking at the score.

[lazs2]

steve has a point... what is a good K/H?  what is a high k/h?  What is average?   decent gameplay is probly at least 4 K/h  less than 6 or 8 and I get bored   10 or so is perfect for me.

At one time I suggested that we have an "average stat" for all stats.  at the top of the stat page.  I think that such an "average stat" would be very useful to judge the effect of changes to the game and chjanges in the playerbase.. you could see what effect certain modifications to the "strat" and playerbase had on the game.

Right now, we are just going by what it looks like to us.

When I suggested this way back when HTC said it sounded like a good idea so either they have forgotten about it or it is more difficult to do than it seemed.
lazs

[ccvi]

Lasz, if the average of K/hr was 10 this would also mean that the average of deaths per hour was 10 - length of average flight 6 minutes.

Oh, 6 minute flights are what you like, nevermind.

[lazs2]

ccvi... yeah, that is what I like... 6 minutes to get into a fight.. probly a lot do... so what?  what does that have to do with having an "average stats" page?  if the average was say 5... and it sudenly went to 12 after a change like say..... closer fields then...

the building battlers and sky accountants could point to that and have a legitimate gripe as to how AH was now "quake" or whatever and the excietment was damaging their heart.

when the average wass 5 and someone with 2 came on and told everyone how he didn't understand the problem and that he never had any trouble finding a fight then we could all laugh at him like.   oh wait your K/H is..
lazs

[Hajo]

Kills/Hour is an unrealistic stat imho.  Some planes like the Jug that climb slowly now have to be 20K usually in the gangbang evironment we are now playing.

The one on ones are getting rare.....almost extinct.

I don't think Priller, Anderson, Bong were concerned about getting 12 kills/hour.  One 3 hour hop would at 4kills/hour  result in 12 kills.  For some reason I don't think it happened that way.
If it did, the Aces of WW2 would have kills in the thousands.  They uppped, formed and grabbed on course, and fought what they encountered.  And most of us up and set course to a fight.

[beet1e]

Hiya, Urchin!  

Originally posted by Urchin
I used to enjoy the hell out of playing this game.  You could log in, find a fight quick, kill or be killed, repeat until you were done.  

Now you log in, take off, if you find one enemy plane you'd better be in a 262 to run him down in, cause he sure as hell ain't fighting.  If you can find two or three enemy planes, you might be able to get some sort of 'fight', as long as they are all above you.  If they are co-alt or lower typically they'll make a couple half-assed passes and run.  

So what happened?  It isn't limited to one country... just about everyone flies like a sissy.  The only GOOD fight I had today was me in a spit against 5 rooks.  It is a little pathetic when the only time anyone will do anything other than bore and zoooooooooom is when they have a 5 to 1 numbers advantage, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that will fight with less than that.  

I'm flying all by my lonesome about 5 thousand feet below the rooks streaming in to orbit one of the knight bases... and I couldn't count the number of times one would dive, make a horrible halfassed pass, and then either run back to his ack, or keep going towards my base where all his friends are.  Why?  Are people really THAT bad?  And whats more....  they must KNOW they are that bad, or they wouldn't be so whoopeeed scared.  Furthermore... why the hell are you scared?  It is a VIDEO GAME.  You don't REALLY DIE.  You can take off again as soon as you get shot down.  And whats really really awful is... you might actually LEARN HOW TO FIGHT.  I know, it's unknown and the unknown is scary, but trust me, it is a helluva lot more fun than 'fighting' like a perpetual motion machine.

It is disgusting, at least to me.  The most commonly used offensive 'tactic' is dive, make a crappy pass, zoom.  If target banks, just zoom, don't bother shooting.  Run after 1 pass, 2 passes at most.  And God forbid you actually attack an enemy plane that is lower than you.  Want to know what you'll see?  I can tell you, and I'll be right about 99.999999999% of the time.  Split-S, haul bellybutton for ack.  Don't turn around until you've flown through some friendly ack, no matter how far away it is.  

To all you bore and zoom sissys out there.... if you absolutely refuse to learn how to fight, do me a favor.  LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.  That way I won't have to sit and suffer through 18,000 half-assed bore and zoom passes.

Hehe, if I had written that, there would have been a plethora of smartasses taunting me to the effect that the enemy "does not fly the way I want them to"! That's OK, I take things as they come, and deal with a situation as it arises, rather than expecting a pre-conceived set of parameters to be met so as to provide a "manufactured" fight.

Urch, don't feel bad. I have only a crumb of comfort to offer, and that is that I've been doing much better in the 109G10 after following your advice, and that of ecke and Grunherz, and others. I still have your list of 109G10 v. other comparisons on my desk. I enjoy flying that G10 because it's a tough one to learn, and because it's not a point-n-click plane. I think what YOU are seeing, Urch, is a bunch of timid guys who have probably upped in easy planes for a kwik-kill-fix. Then when they see that you're no pushover, they panic and run lest you should kill them and find out who they are - which you can do anyway with the film editor.

Well, I did say it would only be a crumb. But you made a big difference - for me. Your task now is to get some of those dweebs out of their easy rides - Spit/La7/N1K & poss. Yak9U etc., and try to get 'em to accept a challenge in the form of learning something new. I know - it's going to be like pushing a house uphill...

[Yeager]

That damned pizza map really makes it hard for me to enjoy my time in the game.