Author Topic: Where Fur and Strat Collide... (Read 9320 times)

Zippatuh · « **Reply #195 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:30:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Moving fields around in different arrangements might work (i.e. different distances). Of course, that requires a terrain rework. Lot of time to do that.

Maybe clumps of fields close together with a sector separating the clumps from other clumps.

Clumps of fields? Hmm...

If I’m following you right it would be say, three bishop fields a few miles from each other, then a sector apart a cluster of three knight fields? And if I understand correctly not having all fields like this but some scattered throughout the map?

The problem that I see with that is the impacts on strat and base capture. Trying to capture one of the cluster would be hard enough but then trying to hold it would be even harder. It could be done but it would only serve to promote the steamroller in the direction of the clusters to take them out quickly.

I really think the simplest answer is closer fields and a few more of them. If the maps take a rework, I would replace the vehicle fields with airfields. Seems like that wouldn’t be as time consuming. Yeah, I am biased against GV’s but they can be spawned from an airfield just as well as from a single V field.

Beetle,

For a card carrying leftwing pinko communist you sound like the NRA and gun control. “My Gawd! Don’t license firearms! That’s just a list so they can come take ‘em!” Hell the battle to gain an inch in this game is hard enough, you think they’re going to give up the mile?

**Note** For those of you who are card carrying leftwing pinko communists I mean no ill will or intend to demean your beliefs in any way

.

lazs2 · « **Reply #196 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:33:17 AM »

the area arena is basicly..... "clumps of fields".

lazs

Toad · « **Reply #197 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:36:52 AM »

Even for you, Beet1e, this is an incredible post. It's got to be one for the history books.

"Stealth changes"? They've been discussed ad infinitum in an open forum.

Your concept of "Laz' secret plans for AH domination" is pretty funny though. You may have missed it, but Laz is merely looking for a fight in the MA. Fight's... as in air combat... is getting kinda rare in the MA. You can't do much ACM under the steamroller, which is where "strat" as implemented has taken the game.

Vehicle only fields are still subject to air attack. If you changed 'em to airfields, there'd be aircraft to help defend.

BTW, why should GV's have that "special place" to battle free from aircraft interference? Don't those GV guys know there is a DA? If the GV Guys are sufficiently numerous to justify game changes, then surely there are enough of them to make the DA option worthwhile. Don't you agree?

lazs2 · « **Reply #198 on:** July 03, 2003, 08:52:05 AM »

so... if ya got 20-30 early war fiels down in the corner of the map that you can't get too unless you fly an early war plane from one of the fields there.... you have the same game parameters as the rest of the game but... seperate resets.

"the dildo hats have won the late war" "the nits have won the early war" What's the problem? feel like steveing it up and flying a pee 51 at 25 k? no sweat... click on a field in the late war area and (cough) "mix it up" with er, "like minded" guys.... feel like some low level early war melee fun? no sweat... click on an early war field that has some action and duke it out...

The whole time.... everyone is able to see just what is going on and keep in touch with everyone else in the community.

Ya can't squeak about lack of variety or maps designed for only one type of plane if ya don't offer a suggestion to fix it. This is mine. I have not seen any other that hasn't been tried (with horrible results) or that makes any sense.

if all you do is fly one way then you won't get it.. you will, like beetle and steve, defend the status quo... it suits your style so it shoyuld be good enough for everyone right? don't rock the boat...

Every change that is made these days seems to be counter to one style or another... the early war "area arena" would end this animosity and self interest to a large extent.
lazs

muckmaw · « **Reply #199 on:** July 03, 2003, 09:12:36 AM »

What happens after you get the early war arena?

Someone starts a crusade for a 1943 only arena?

A p-51 only area?

A Stuka Vs. GV only arena?

What about an ME-262 arena?

One of the fuball proponents said moving the furs to the DA would divide the community. Are'nt we taking the same steps here? Will this set a precedent for anyone who wants something specific added or changed to the game, regardless of others, to start a year long crusade to get it implimented?

Closer fields? Fine. I've seen how this can work.

Eliminate GV only fields...No way. Unfair to the GVs and upsets the strat game as this was explained ad nauseum.

Clumps of airfields? All for it. We'll come in, bomb them back to the stone age with a 40 pilot mission, and make a simultaneous 3 field capture. I'd love to try that.

I can go for the Area within the Arena idea for furballs (Exactly like tank town) but not limiting the types of planes in there. That, in my opinion would set a precedent that would have every special interest person coming out of the woodwork.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #200 on:** July 03, 2003, 09:13:52 AM »

Lazs the problem with segregation of aircraft at airfields is... I don’t like the early war stuff. I like flying the late war aircraft. There would be problems with squads that fly together but have varying tastes in airplanes.

I like the fact that the 13th fly’s together all the time. We also have a variety up at any given moment. Stringer in a Yak, Toad is in just about anything that’s slow, Rude’s on a F6F kick, Milo, Beemer, Thunder, Oz and Cpig usually up in a very wide variety of aircraft. Sax is usually in an FM2 and Yeager and I still love the Mustang. Big blue also still has a place for me.

I would like to keep flying with the squad on nights other than squad nights. Something that limits the plane set in specific areas I think would be a bad idea and make it hard for this to continue.

Oh yeah, I also like shooting at the lower and slower aircraft

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Toad · « **Reply #201 on:** July 03, 2003, 09:30:39 AM »

It may have escaped your notice, but Tank Town has a very limited set of choices in the hangar.

Perhaps that set a precedent that has every special interest person coming out of the woodwork.

In short, the concept exists already; no reason not to give it a try for "early war". That's certainly a much less limited set of choices than GV's.

Toad · « **Reply #202 on:** July 03, 2003, 09:31:27 AM »

Don't worry Zip. You can still steal Sax's kills if you're in an FM2.

SlapShot · « **Reply #203 on:** July 03, 2003, 10:14:35 AM »

Lets take Trinity for example ....

There is a large piece of the map that is not used and means nothing in the current implementation.

Section off area in red with very high mountains creating a volcano effect. Hopefully high enough to discourage griefers.

Brown areas are land plateaus that are say 2k high and have very steep inclines to the volcano floor. The raised field would help on climb out and the steep incline (60%) would discourage GVs griefers that have already driven more than a 1 1/2 sectors to get to the base.

Blue dots are bases. They appear to be more than a sector apart from each other, and there is room behind each base to allow climbout if the center furball area is quite full and active.

Red dot is approx. center from all bases where the majority of the furball would take place. It appears to be about 1 sector away from each base. This allows plenty of room for climbout and I think more than enough room to accomodate a very large furball.

Bases can have GVs to help defend against griefers that may try to capture the base. The VH would be very close to the town. Ack at each base/town would be indestructable. Again, to discourage griefers and base capture. Towns would have extra ack surrounding the town, not just the 3 that are in the town. If troops are dropped, hopefully the increased amount of ack would wipe out all drunks before they hit the ground.

muckmaw · « **Reply #204 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:09:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
It may have escaped your notice, but Tank Town has a very limited set of choices in the hangar.

Perhaps that set a precedent that has every special interest person coming out of the woodwork.

In short, the concept exists already; no reason not to give it a try for "early war". That's certainly a much less limited set of choices than GV's.

I understand your point, but saying the choices are limited is silly. Every GV possible is represented there. If you want to model the Arena idea according to Tank town, then you have to make every fighter aircraft available.

What you're trying to do appears to be unfair to many furballers and even occasional furballers like me. Say I want to get a qucik dogfight in before dinner and only have 30 mins to play. Well, my ride of choice is the F6F. It won't be avaiable will it?

Well, Lazs, defender of choice, has just elimiated my choice of aircraft. So maybe beetle is right. Maybe all this is just a thinly veiled attempt to get people to fly his way, with his type of plane.

I'm a part time furballer who flies Mid war aircraft. Where's my little sandbox for people like me?

It's funny, but the same people who scream when we talk about perking planes because it eliminates or reduces choice, are the same one's lobbying to have an arena where nothing past 1942 will be allowed.

Sorry, guys. I'm all for getting the little Arena but if you're going to have it and say it's for furballing, then you have to allow all fighter plane types.

Otherwise, it's gotta be Early War Mini Arena Furball area. If that's the case, then I want a Mid-War Mini Arena Furball area. And then there will be someone who want s Late war mini furball arena.

Where do we draw the line?

Toad · « **Reply #205 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:43:01 AM »

Of course every possible GV is there. It's a Tank Furball Arena. Note, however, that NONE of the aircraft are available because the presence of non-tank furball elements would defeat the purpose of the Tank Furball Arena within the Main Arena.

Obviously the choices in the Tank Furball Arena are limited. ONLY GV's are available. What percentage of the "planeset" is that?

The Tank Furball Arena caters specifically to a small special interest group. And, apparently, no one seems to have a real problem with that. In fact the idea meets with general approbation from all sides in this discussion. The Tank Furballers aren't affecting the MA; they only affect their own little special Arean within an Arena.

If you have no interest in that, you obviously don't make use of it.

I'm a prime example of that case. I never go to the Tank Furball Arena within the MA; yet it doesn't bother me one bit that it is there and that those who like that sort of thing are enjoying it.

And for those who want "more".... there's the rest of the MA, in all it's "strategic" glory.

While the "planeset" for a similar Aircraft Furball Arena hasn't really even been discussed, it would seem quite obvious that if some aircraft were left out, then people actually interested in those aircraft could campaign for their inclusion OR lobby for their own little arena within an arena.

(I bet Beet1e may soon chime in here with his plea for a Rolling Plane set.)

Point is, if there is a purely GV Tank Furball Arena within the Main Arena, there's no reason why some sort of Aircraft Furball Arena can't be given a chance. If it doesn't work, it's easily tweaked or removed. The Tankers have essentially no effect on MA "strat" and MA strat has no real effect on them. (Nor do they appear to desire any effect either way.)

There's a group of fliers that want the same thing. A place away from the Hamster Wheel War with it's incredibly subtle and clever strategy , where they can use their fighter aircraft for fighter air combat without any effect on MA strat and where strat really doesn't affect them.

Now it's OK for GV guys to want that and get it... but somehow it's not OK for guys that like pure Fighter Air Combat?

Note also that if a CV method were used, 3 out of the "Perk the Big Four" aircraft would be unavailable. So those seeking the ever elusive "diversity" in their fights would have a readily available option if they were tired of La-7's, P-51's and N1K1's.

There's a lot of positives to the idea. It in no way limits the enjoyment of those that like the MA like it is now. All that would still be there. Like the Tank Furball Arena within the Main Arena, a Aircraft Furball Arena within the Main Arena would merely present another option, more choice, for all players.

Again, remember that the Hampster Wheel War would be unaffected in the same way that the Tank Furball Arena really does not affect it on Trinity.

CptTrips · « **Reply #206 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:51:07 AM »

Quote

If that's the case, then I want a Mid-War Mini Arena Furball area.

Hang on a sec!

If you're getting an arena within the arena within the arena for mid-war planes then I want an arena within the arena within the arena within the arena for late war only planes!

Fair is fair!

Wab

beet1e · « **Reply #207 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:54:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zippatuh
Beetle,

For a card carrying leftwing pinko communist

ROFL! Hey Dowding/Straffo - has this guy got his head up his arse or what?

Now that MT is free to remarry, perhaps I should propose...

Mr. Toad! Always a pleasure to hear from you... but don't you think Lazs can defend himself? Anyway, thanks for reading my post.

Zanth · « **Reply #208 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:56:06 AM »

The first FM-2 was built in 1943.

Toad · « **Reply #209 on:** July 03, 2003, 12:07:50 PM »

So, Wab, what's your view on the Tank Furball Arena presently included in Trinity?

Beet1e......... I skimmed it as usual.

...... and I'm not speaking for Laz, I'm speaking for myself. Lately I find myself playing a boxed game far more than AH, a situation in which I never really thought I would find myself. At least AI will aggressively engage.