Where Fur and Strat Collide...

[Toad]

Originally posted by Zanth
The first FM-2 was built in 1943.

Don't think there's any definitive listing so far, other than the CV idea. The normal CV planeset would work fine I think.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
Lately I find myself playing a boxed game far more than AH, a situation in which I never really thought I would find myself. At least AI will aggressively engage.  

Oh, now I get it. The people in AH just won't fly the way you want them to, so you've gone off in a huff to play your boxed game. Awwww, shame...

[Toad]

No, as usual, you don't get it.

I'm a fighter action junkie. AH is no longer about fighter combat, as it was at the beginning.

People campaigning for little nudges and tweaks to make it more suitable for their style of play, you see. Now it's not really about fighter air combat at all, is it?

So, just as if I originally had a lot of interest in a game about say... driving race cars... as "special interest groups" nudged the game more into the mechanical aspect of prepping the cars for the race in the pits while another group lobbied for and got a major innovation of cooking hamburgers and hot dogs for the crowd and the "ticket scalping lobby" got that included in the game for them.....  I would be off investigating other opportunities for ...... driving race cars. You know, the thing the originally attracted me to the game in the first place.

Enjoy your hot dogs and ticket scalping.  

[muckmaw]

Toad-

I think you misunderstood me.

I'm all for the Furball arena idea, but I do not think any fighter aircraft should be excluded. Please reread my post if you mis understood.

I also do not care for the CV only idea, as this would severly limit the aircraft available for the furball arena, even though my ride of choice would be there. I'm just looking out for others.

The limited AC available from a CV would certainly eliminate alot of the BIG-4 Problem, only to respawn in another form. I don't know what the AC of choice would be, but it could turn into CHOG arena or something.

[Toad]

The whole idea has to pass the "doable" test.

Obviously, the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena was "doable" within the confines of the Terrain Editor (map maker) and within the AH game itself. The TFAWAA is merely V-fields (already in the game) surrounded by high mountains (clearly withing the parameters of the game itself.) That's all that was really implemented or changed.

Now, to create a "all fighters only" Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena, you'd have to create something that IS NOT in the game. There are no airfields that I know of that have no bomber hangars. That would be a "new element" and may or may not be possible for the Terrain Editor to make. I simply don't know. Surrounding it or walling it off with mountains would clearly be possible.

The CV AFAWAA would be easily "doable". CV/Port logic exists and the mountain wall technique does too.

Now the real beauty is, that EXACTLY LIKE the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena, if you don't want to go to the CV AFAWAA, you don't have to do so.

It will not affect your current play style in the MA in any way at all.

So, you want to fly a Mustang? Go ahead. And, if you're so inclined, you can take drop tanks and make the long flight over the hills into the CV AFAWAA, EXACTLY like you would going from the MA into the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena.

It's a "no harm, no foul" idea. No one gets hurt by this.

[SlapShot]

You know ... we had a good dialog going yesterday and with Skuzzy's involvment to boot ... he was listening and providing input.

As soon as beet1e started posting, there has been nothing but snotballs being lobbed at each other, and Skuzzy has disappeared ... I wonder why ?

I posted screen shots of what I thought would fix/work into an existing map using some of the ideas that were brought forth yesterday ... not one word about any of it ... just more snotballs.

13th TAS ... <> gentlemen ... Please ignore beet1e, as hard as that may be, forget the snotballs and lets get back to the idea mill.

To continue the discussion ... I would not see this area limiting the plane set. Bring what ya want to the furball ... it would be no different than the current furballs that we all enjoy now.

The real difference, is that the design of this area would be to ensure that the furball continue and not get sunffed out as they are today. That is the main objective as I see it.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Toad
The whole idea has to pass the "doable" test.

Obviously, the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena was "doable" within the confines of the Terrain Editor (map maker) and within the AH game itself. The TFAWAA is merely V-fields (already in the game) surrounded by high mountains (clearly withing the parameters of the game itself.) That's all that was really implemented or changed.

Now, to create a "all fighters only" Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena, you'd have to create something that IS NOT in the game. There are no airfields that I know of that have no bomber hangars. That would be a "new element" and may or may not be possible for the Terrain Editor to make. I simply don't know. Surrounding it or walling it off with mountains would clearly be possible.

The CV AFAWAA would be easily "doable". CV/Port logic exists and the mountain wall technique does too.

Now the real beauty is, that EXACTLY LIKE the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena, if you don't want to go to the CV AFAWAA, you don't have to do so.

It will not affect your current play style in the MA in any way at all.

So, you want to fly a Mustang? Go ahead. And, if you're so inclined, you can take drop tanks and make the long flight over the hills into the CV AFAWAA, EXACTLY like you would going from the MA into the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena.

It's a "no harm, no foul" idea. No one gets hurt by this.

Toad,

The CV idea is good and definately appears to be doable. I think the plane set would be too limiting, thats just MHO. Also, the CV can move which would lend itselfs to griefers capturing the other or all CV ports as Wab described. This could be prevented, again, by indestructable ack at the ports and plenty of them so if LVTs tried to capture, the ack would hopefully rip them up as the approached dry land.

I think the biggest drawback would be the limited plane set.

[Skuzzy]

I am still reading...just a bit busy with the short week.

Have a Happy and Safe 4th of July!

[lazs2]

zip and muck and wabbit... you are limited to plane choice now... you can only take off certain types from carriers.   If the 13th decided on a carrier fight yu are limited to carrier planes..  if they go early war you will be limited to early war but.... you can seamlessly switch if 2 or three tas say... "i'm sick of this let's go to A79 (late war field) one click and you are there...

muck... how so?  you can fly any plane you want from the late war area.   you just can't fly late war planes from the early war area... the sgregation has INCREASED choice... you have a place that is viable for early war planes and a place where all planes are allowed if youy so desire... you can still fly any plane against any plane.... just not non carrier planes from carriers or late war planes from early war fields.... with seperate resets you will never be 'forced" to fly any type of plane.

wabbit... you have hit on my diobolical super secret plot.... eventually.... I WOULD like to see a mid war area within the arena.... 3 areas instead of 2 or 1... early, mid and late.   That would be the most fair of course and offer even more choice and parity.   I think it would be easier to test the early war arena idea first tho... I have found that any concept past the extremely rudimentary causes a lot of people to brain lock or go into self interest fetal positions.
lazs

[lazs2]

as for early, mid and late.... infinity or pizza could easily be switched... each country area as it exists could be changed to an "area" .... early, mid and late.   2-5 sectors seperation with maybe some gv bases in the seperation "no mans land"  a bigger and better 'tank town" so to speak...

see.... something for everyone.

lazs

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
I am still reading...just a bit busy with the short week.

Have a Happy and Safe 4th of July!

GREAT !!! Any thoughts ?

Have a safe and fun weekend !!!

[lazs2]

slap... if yu have an early war and a mid war arena with close fields 3/4 to a sector apart... you don't need and artifical furball with all planes enabled... if will simply happen... in the late war area the fields would be farther apart and furs would not happen... or they might, once in a while but the planes and people who like to fly em are not suited to furballs in any case.

early and mid would be pure fun.

lazs

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by lazs2
zip and muck and wabbit... you are limited to plane choice now... you can only take off certain types from carriers.   If the 13th decided on a carrier fight yu are limited to carrier planes..  if they go early war you will be limited to early war but.... you can seamlessly switch if 2 or three tas say... "i'm sick of this let's go to A79 (late war field) one click and you are there...

muck... how so?  you can fly any plane you want from the late war area.   you just can't fly late war planes from the early war area... the sgregation has INCREASED choice... you have a place that is viable for early war planes and a place where all planes are allowed if youy so desire... you can still fly any plane against any plane.... just not non carrier planes from carriers or late war planes from early war fields.... with seperate resets you will never be 'forced" to fly any type of plane.

wabbit... you have hit on my diobolical super secret plot.... eventually.... I WOULD like to see a mid war area within the arena.... 3 areas instead of 2 or 1... early, mid and late.   That would be the most fair of course and offer even more choice and parity.   I think it would be easier to test the early war arena idea first tho... I have found that any concept past the extremely rudimentary causes a lot of people to brain lock or go into self interest fetal positions.
lazs

Laz ... 'ole buddy !!!

Lets walk before we run.

I thought the original goal was to provide a "furball" area that cannot be interrupted by strat goals (no fuel porked - short flight distance to the fight). If we can start with just this concept first, and prove that it has merit, then we can see how we can accomodate plane sets within these areas. The area concept has to be proven first IMHO.

In my business, too many requirements at the beginning of a product cycle can kill the cycle all together, or the start of the cycle is delayed.

You have to start with a proof of concept first and that is usually very simple requirements at the onset, eventually other requirements are added later.

I also would like to see these multiple areas with different plane sets, but I would first like to see just an area. That would be a TREMENDOUS WIN !!!

[Drunky]

Another suggestion:

Create a map that would remain in the SEA or new arena.  If it remains in the SEA then it comes down for events.  I would suggest a new arena.

The map would have in the top-left corner serveral bases of every country with only early-war planes available.

In the top-right could be mid-war planes.

In the lower-left could be late-war planes.

The lower-right could have all planes if you want it.

Somewhere in the middle could be a lake with two ports and cvs for each country.  This allows for good cv and carriers battle.

Also in the middle could be a gv area (complete with broken town buildings ala Okinawa map for cover) with maybe three vehicle hangers and each one having a different spawn point.  The three different spawn points should help with spawn point camping.

Create 40k mountins around the different areas if that makes everyone happen to prevent someone from flying into a different area.

Bases uncapturable.  Acks could be hardened or indestructable if you would like.  No need for towns and map room simply located at the base although they aren't necessarily needed.

Okay, stop slinging snotballs (as someone said) and how about some constructive critisicm on this idea.

[Rude]

Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, now I get it. The people in AH just won't fly the way you want them to, so you've gone off in a huff to play your boxed game. Awwww, shame...

C'mon Beetle...you're really not that simple minded are you?


It's not much fun to have folks fly over you and not fight, nor is it fun to have to spend 20 minutes grabbin alt just to chase someone back to the deck.

HT just needs to move the fields closer...I'm not in favor of a seperate fighter town concept. Move the fields closer and the fights will develope quicker and at lower alt.

This change will in no way hinder the strat guys.