Where Fur and Strat Collide...

[beet1e]

Quoting Mr. Toad's entire brick (subset of his wall) to piss Drunky off

Originally posted by Mr. Toad
C'mon, don't be a hypocrite. The journey from the pure fighter ACM game that was Beta to whatever it is we have now was accomplished by subsets of AH subscribers lobbying for "tinkering" changes.

So you do want it both ways. You apparently like what it has become but now that you're satisfied, there's to be no more tinkering?

Ya know, we had a saying about guys like you in the Union.

"Up the ladder mates, I'm aboard".

You've got yours and now no ones else gets aboard, eh? You're happy, so no more tinkering.

There's been YEARS of subsets of players "tinkering". YEARS.

Once again, I thank you for bringing a smile to my day.

 are you being deliberately obtuse? About tinkering: No problem with tinkering if its objective is to benefit everyone - see green sig text. But I object to tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others - see red sig text. I can't make it any simpler than that. And even Skuzzy agrees with me - see purple sig text.

The British saying is "I'm all right, Jack".

BTW, Too-obtuse. I get my fuel porked too. And sometimes those nasty men in red hit my HQ radar. I have two solutions to that, and have performed both. One is to up a P47 to go to its defence, and the other has been to join the goon conveyor belt to resupply it. Option 3 - whining to HTC to have the game changed - is not on my list.

As for fuel porkage, since the fingerbobs have been whining about it, I decided to try it myself. Yes, it is quite easy to whack the fuel once the field has been de-acked. And now that I know how effective this is as a tactic, and all the wailing and gnashing of gums it causes from the grumpy old men, I shall pork on with gay abandon!

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
About tinkering: No problem with tinkering if its objective is to benefit everyone - see green sig text. But I object to tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others - see red sig text.  

You positively define obtuse old bean!

I suppose you actually believe that through all these years of tinkering all changes were cheerfully accepted as beneficial by all players?

Clearly all of the changes have been beneficial to some and detrimental to others.

How the heck do you think we've come to this animosity between the furball crowd and the strateeeegerists?

So once again we're at Beet1e's Basic Bottom Line:

"Tinkering with the game is fine, as long as I agree with the changes. The rest of you should have no voice."

[SlapShot]

"The CV idea would provide a quick, cheap, relatively off the shelf test of the concept. If it works, then perhaps a more detailed effort would be warranted."

Agreed !!! Gotta start somewhere.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
So once again we're at Beet1e's Basic Bottom Line:

"Tinkering with the game is fine, as long as I agree with the changes. The rest of you should have no voice."

Well, if that's how you see it, at least it's perfectly balanced with Lazs's bottom line, which is "More choices for all. I am on your side, except if you don't agree with me in which case you're an idiotic sky accountant, coin collector or bad partygoer" And of course, in Lazs's utopian world, women would have no say in AH development at all.  I am delighted we have at last reached equilibrium.

Balance, my boy, balance.

[Toad]

Do you really want to go through a litany of changes that have been made and evaluate whether everyone found them "beneficial"?

Surely, even you realize that many if not all of the changes were controversial? Generated animosity?

You are content because the game is apparently evolving in a way that generally satisfies you. That is what is most obvious in your signature block at present.

Surely you can see that there are many that are not happy because that same evolution provides less and less satisfaction to them?

Never forget, for all of Laz' vitriol and hyperbole, what he's been asking for most consistently and continually is an "arena within an arena". A concept that the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena has proven as workable.

Were Laz to get his wish, it would not affect your strateeeegerist gameplay AT ALL.

It would offer "more choice".

So I suppose there is nearly perfect balance here. Your posts depict you EXACTLY as you depict Laz.

[lazs2]

bad partygoer?  I didn't say that... sounds effeminate.

Look... I will be happy with fields a little closer.. ANY change that gives the early war planes a chance is a plus for the game but...

lets get relaistic here and look at the big picture.... late war planes are not "furballers"   they can be furball wannabes and furball spoilers and furball lurkers... so long as they aren't too much of a pain in the butt tho it's all right to have em around but...

In the end we have to have a real solution and, beetle and some of the knuckle draggers here have decided that I am a diobolical supervillan with a super secret plot or.. conversely... have no idea other than 'put the fields closer together"   I have offered my ultimate solution... some sim will do it because it is the ony workable solution to a sim about WWII aircraft that span such a large technolodgy base.

Drunky get's it but... you don't need an 'all planes area'... the late war is an all planes area.   the mid war would be a mid and early war area and the early war area would be early only.

strat would not change.. or, need not.. seperate resets.   You would not have your squad split into different arenas with no communication... If they consistently liked to fly only one type of plane and it was not what the rest of the group liked... they probly didn't fit in anyway.   Most squads settle on one or two pllanes or switch for "missuns" or jump around on plane choice edepending on the situation..  In the BK's no that many guys fly carrier planes but if I find a good cv fight they will all jump into carrier planes..

In the area arena it would work the same... if there was a great fight at the mid war area we would simply jump into one of a dozen or more VIABLE  planes that would be available and fight there... when it got calm or boring someone would say ... "great fight in the early war between ## and ##" and everyone would jump over to there.  

It may be a problem with the very large and cumbersome squads but it is the cumbersome squads that is the problem not the arena.

Again... I will take what I can get "closer fields" but eventually we have to find a real solution rather than just pretending the problem doesn't exist.    

wabbit..  where di I get drawings of the current maps?

lazs

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by Toad
Do you really want to go through a litany of changes that have been made and evaluate whether everyone found them "beneficial"?

Surely you must agree, Toad, that the game has evolved in such a way that it was beneficial for more people than it was detrimental for others.

How many players flew AH the first year after beta?

How many subsciptions does HTC have now?


Double? Triple? Quadruple?

Air Warrior made mistakes when making changes. It's gone...now those players are HT's.

Warbirds....same deal. Still in existence, but a shadow of it's former self. Where did those players go? AH.

This game must be doing something right, lest it not be growing.

One more thing. What if the furs tested the CV idea WITHOUT any help from HTC?

Make a gentlemens agreement among the top scorers of each country. Select 3 ocean grids well out to see, and move 3 CVs there. Announce what your doing on each country channel to avoid interference. (I know I'll respect it)

Look at the maps, set the grids for each map, and make it known to all. Hell, I'll move a CV over there for you if I have the rank.

Finally, thanks to beetle..I can finally add to my sig!

(No offense Beetle. Your very well spoken, and seem quite intelligent. I tend to agree with the bulk of your posts, but I simply cannot resist this one.)

[lazs2]

now... just to confuse things a little more....

i suggest that "early/mid and late" refer to capabilities... most notably speed climb and acceleration... you obviously want parity so having a 190A1 in the early war area is a no no... convesely.. a late war zeke should still be in the early war.   Fm2?  not sure... make a F4f-3 and you actualy have an early war FM2.  A spit 9 would be a mid war plane as would a corsair and hellcat...  lots of room for arguement tho.

lazs

[muckmaw]

Lazs,

You don't even have the arena yet, not sure if we're going to get it, and you're already starting to divi up the plane set.

A little premature, no?

Maybe you should take a break. Go on a trip and Pork some grumpy old men with Gay Abandon.

[lazs2]

muck... furballers aren't maw... we don't take orders and we don't organize.   we do pay tho and we leave when something better comes along.  Mostly we don't say anything when we do (unlike the "realism" and "organized" crowd)  I am sure that HTC is well aware of this.   I don't think you are capable of understanding us any more than we can understand you.   We will continue to be the guys shaking our heads as we pass all the "lukes and darth vaders" on the sidwalk waiting to get into the latest star wars movie.   We will never be tempted to join in on a huge board game of WWII that everyone emails their moves in on and takes months to play... we will build 500 HP big blocks and pedal to the metal or... some of the really perverted amungst us will even restore and fly old PT trainers.

Closer fields or an area arena would in no way drive people off to... to what?  WB?  AW?  maybe WWII ol?

Area arena may hurt some of the "missun" thinking but... so what?  we are getting an "missun" arena anyway.

and muck... I am only doing as suggested, no.... demanded... I am revealing my supersecret dioblical supervillan plot in all it's splendor.  Take it as far as yu want.   It can be done in easy little baby steps that won't overload the terminally timid and unimaginative.  With luck they won't even notice things have been improved till months after they have.
lazs

[muckmaw]

Oh lazs, you are such a cool rebel!


And you've got a cause!


If I bring in my Plymouth Voyager, can you put some mag wheels on it, and trick it out so I can stave off my midlife crisis another week?


Re-read some posts I've made, secret squirrel. I'm only trying to help with some ideas.

Do I give a rats arnold about your arena? Sure. I'd like to fly it too.

Do you bother to read anything I post, or do you simply see muckmaw, and your brain kicks over into schmuck mode?

What did you think about that CV idea about 2-3 posts up?

And contrary to what you think, I do understand your type.

Let me see if I can define it. You want the qucikest action possible, with the least amount of wasted time between takeoff and firing. You like huge down and dirty furballs, with guns blazing, hair on fire, play till your out of ammo, and limp home with half a plane, landing 2 or more kills. And above all, have a blast doing it.

That about right?

Guys like me...I can define.

I want a team based game with organized missions and goals that come as close to tewchnilogically possible to a recreation of WWII Land, Sea and Air engagements. I would like this game to be professionally managed, with good suppport and a good community. (I stuck that in before you said, go to WWIIOL)

[lazs2]

muck.. it is you who is not reading me.  You are also every bit as insulting as I am.   I find that less than refreshing when you attempt to chastise me in the same breath.

first you want me to tell what I want and then you tell me that I am telling you too much..  What I want can be taken in steps.

How did I know you drove a mini van?   To me.... yur kind of strat ruins the game.  It is no fun to be on either end of it... I don't want to be involved in one of your massive numbers raids that gangbang a field into submission nor do I want to be on the other end...  but...

I won't try to stop you.   Heck... you can call yourself general or camanding officer for all I care.   No... what I want is some variety parity and action.

I believe that for those things to happen very little work is needed and it will affect whatever it is that you feel you are doing, very little.

closer fields will simply create an "area arena" but... it will be a vertical one.  The slower early planes will be low and the late fast ones high... there will be some interaction at the close fields but not enough to ruin anyones fun.   You can still merrily go n about taking lightly or undefended fields and saluting each other till your arms fall off.... HTC will anounce to me when you have "won the war"  I don't want to have to be bothered with you until then.

Now... obviously..we do not like each others style of play.   What you want (staus quo) forces us to be in conflict... What I want allows you to not be bothered with my silly furball antics and me to not be bothered with your role playing.

If you have a solution that would allow parity and variety I would be more than interested in hearing it.
lazs

[Creamo]

I’m all for wealazs’s furball volcano. Hate to see such a important crusade to change field spacing in a video game come to an end though. It’s been so interesting day after day after post after post after post.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
You are content because the game is apparently evolving in a way that generally satisfies you. That is what is most obvious in your signature block at present.

Surely you can see that there are many that are not happy because that same evolution provides less and less satisfaction to them?

I am content with the game as it is because that's how HTC designed it. And I have learned it in its current form. We have to learn to work with what we have.  That is my principal beef with the fingerbobs. Mr. Toad, I have seen what happens when folks start tinkering with game parameters. I have seen the reaction of the silent majority of players in response to player induced game changes. Trust me - we don't want to go there. If you can prove to me that the fingerbob changes would benefit everyone, we'll talk again - green sig text would apply. Until that time, red (and purple) sig text apply.

Muckmaw - LOL!  You can quote anything I say! You said

I want a team based game with organized missions and goals that come as close to technologically possible to a recreation of WWII Land, Sea and Air engagements. I would like this game to be professionally managed, with good support and a good community.

I'd very much like that too. But I must qualify that: Much though I abhor the thought of AH becoming a glorified chat room with a bit of furballing going on in the background, I wouldn't want to see us committed to 8-hour buff missions etc. As to organised missions, I don't like the missuns because of the numerical supremacy gangbangery they generate. Embarrassing though it is, I find myself in Lazs's camp on that issue. I'd be happy for bardar and missun editor to be turned off, so that STEALTH missions would be possible. For these and any other changes, I'd be happy for a popup poll to be taken at log-on, and to abide by the majority vote.

But wait... the missions that guys like Muckmaw and myself would like - isn't that what we're going to be getting in AH2?

[muckmaw]

Lazs-

That was your best reply ever. Honestly. I must commed you on it.

However, I don't drive a mini-van. That was a joke. I alomost bought one, found I still had testicles, and bought a Monte Carlo SS instead.

What do you think of the CV idea, UNTIL HTC can consider/impliment the mini-arena, or closer fields idea?

I can grab a knight CV right now and move it out to a selceted grid square. We just need a Rook and a Bish with a low score to do the same, and broadcast our intentions so no one interferes.

Lazs, also, you have to remember. I enjoy a dogfight as well. Though I suspect I'm not like you, in that I prefer to get some alt (10K) so I have a chance to catch the late war rides in my F6F. Do I enjoy a down on the deck knife fight? Some of the best sorties I've ever flown were in FM2's below 1000 feet. Problem is, I can catch much with the bird, so I have to lure these guys into a turn fight.

When I have more time, I enjoy a good long Strat mission. Sorta like a mighty 8th type deal.

So I guess this makes me on the fence. I can see why you see me as an adversary, but in reality, I'm not.

What do you think about getting a Rook and A Bish to move the CV's into a adjacent Grid Squares right now?