Author Topic: Heil Intolerance  (Read 11784 times)

Offline Apache

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« Reply #315 on: August 05, 2003, 12:18:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm glad you asked....




and


and



source - http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe.htm#norm


So I gather your opinion is that homosexuality is genetic? Born gay?

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #316 on: August 05, 2003, 12:19:57 PM »
Bottom line: Children need a mom and a dad. If mom and dad cant be there, they need a father figure and a mother figure. Homosexuals cannot give this to a child. Therefore they should not be allowed to adopt.

Now some might argue that there are some children that normal foster parents dont want to adopt, and it would be better for those children to live with a loving gay couple rather than grow up in an institution. Maybe... BUT, you cant devise a law that says gays are allowed to adopt children who no other foster parents wants. That part of the law would be discriminatory, and therefore that part would get tossed out the window by the supreme court as soon as a case got there.

So, sorry. We need to focus on the kids. They should be our priority here. And having children is not a human right, and if you choose to live your life as a homosexual, then it pretty much comes with the territory that you wont have kids. Im sorry but they just have to live with it.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #317 on: August 05, 2003, 12:25:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Apache
So I gather your opinion is that homosexuality is genetic? Born gay?


Not just my opinion, a belief based on study and evidence. Whether it is genetic or people are born gay, I'm sure it is something that people have no choice in deciding.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #318 on: August 05, 2003, 12:25:59 PM »
Homosexuality very well could be genetic or a mutation in the DNA, unless of course you can prove that other deviations from the norm in the way people turn out aren't genetic/mutation in DNA... such as a 5th finger (thumbs not a finger), or an extra toe. A little deviation in someone's DNA can change something big or little.

Ever heard of pheromones? Women put them off just like men, just a little change of the DNA and voila! A man/woman's pheromone receptors prefer the same sex.

Some people may choose to be gay, but when someone says "I've always been that way"... why can't you take that at face value? Is that so impossible? I mean, afterall, so many people in here keep reciting religion, that's even more impossible to believe than a deviation in the genetic/DNA make-up of someone that causes them to prefer the same sex.
-SW

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #319 on: August 05, 2003, 12:26:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Bottom line: Children need a mom and a dad. If mom and dad cant be there, they need a father figure and a mother figure. Homosexuals cannot give this to a child. Therefore they should not be allowed to adopt.


That's horsetoejam, I was raised by only my dad with no mother figure.
-SW

Offline Apache

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« Reply #320 on: August 05, 2003, 12:32:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Not just my opinion, a belief based on study and evidence. Whether it is genetic or people are born gay, I'm sure it is something that people have no choice in deciding.


What evidence? Could you point me to the scientific analysis? I would like to take a gander at it.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #321 on: August 05, 2003, 12:32:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Bottom line: Children need a mom and a dad. If mom and dad cant be there, they need a father figure and a mother figure. Homosexuals cannot give this to a child. Therefore they should not be allowed to adopt.

Now some might argue that there are some children that normal foster parents dont want to adopt, and it would be better for those children to live with a loving gay couple rather than grow up in an institution. Maybe... BUT, you cant devise a law that says gays are allowed to adopt children who no other foster parents wants. That part of the law would be discriminatory, and therefore that part would get tossed out the window by the supreme court as soon as a case got there.

So, sorry. We need to focus on the kids. They should be our priority here. And having children is not a human right, and if you choose to live your life as a homosexual, then it pretty much comes with the territory that you wont have kids. Im sorry but they just have to live with it.


A 2 parent stable family is the ideal. No argument there. It is also the minority of families in the US.

I raised my 2 daughters alone for many years. Over 50% of all marriages end in divorce, so most children are with one parent or the other. Your logic would ensure a lot of kids would be without homes Hortlund. Because if "you can't provide a mother figure and a father figure" you shouldn't adopt.

Or are you opposed to straight single parent adoptions as well?

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #322 on: August 05, 2003, 12:49:18 PM »
Quote
Bottom line: Children need a mom and a dad. If mom and dad cant be there, they need a father figure and a mother figure. Homosexuals cannot give this to a child. Therefore they should not be allowed to adopt. - Hortlund


I don't disagree that kids need a mom and dad. But what about a homo male and a lesbian female getting married to have a kid, or adopt a kid? This kind of homosexual marriage would be able to provide a father/mother figure to a child... wouldn't it?

:p
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Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #323 on: August 05, 2003, 12:50:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
That's horsetoejam, I was raised by only my dad with no mother figure.
-SW

Sorry AKS, but it is the truth.

And please dont take it personal or anything directed at you. Heck I was raised by only my mom since dad figured he had better things to do.

Nevertheless, children need both their parents in different stages of their lives.  A child goes through different periods during childhood. In these different periods, the child needs its parents differently. For example, during the first 4-6-8 months, the child, regardless of sex, needs his/her mother more than anything else. Keeping a small child away from his/her mother for more than a couple of hours causes the child to become distressed and troubled. At this point the child has not yet realized that someone who leaves the room still exists, at the same time it needs its mother both for comfort and food, and if the mother is away, the child reacts as if it had lost its mother. This is the reason why in custody cases, no matter how bad the mom is, the courts tend to seek to find a way to keep the child with its mother 90% of the time in this period.

Then comes another period for the child, 8-24 months. During this period the child starts to realize that it is a separate entity, that it is a person, separated from mom and dad. During this period it is VERY important that the child has good contact with the parent of the same sex as the child. A boy needs his dad alot during this time, while a girl needs her mom alot. During this time, naturally the other parent is important too, but the same-sex parent takes over the mother role from the first period.

And then comes the period where the child develops its own personality, where it realizes that it has a will of its own and that it actually can do what it wants even if mom or dad says no. Normally this happens when the child is between 2 yrs - 4 yrs old. This is the period where parents spend most of the days in endless power struggles with screaming children. Going to the store is a complete nightmare, especially when you are walking past the ice-cream. At night when the kids finally fall asleep, you as a parent have more often than not reached levels of exhaustion you never thought existed (trust me on this... my oldest son is in this period right now). During this period, the child is developing his own personality, and he needs to see how males and females are/interact/work. Here is where young boys need male role models, or where young girls need female role models.

Bottom line:
The child needs a mom and a dad. Same sex parents cannot give the child this. That is just some political correct BS.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #324 on: August 05, 2003, 12:51:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
I don't disagree that kids need a mom and dad. But what about a homo male and a lesbian mom getting married to have a kid, or adopt a kid? This kind of homosexual marriage would be able to provide a father/mother figure to a child... wouldn't it?

:p


Yeah, it would. As long as the gay dad and lesbo mom decides to play family while the kid is around.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #325 on: August 05, 2003, 12:54:23 PM »
You mean early in his life? I had my mom around till I was about 8.

But child adoption doesn't necessarily imply a young child, some children get adopted as old as 18 I believe.
-SW

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #326 on: August 05, 2003, 12:59:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
A 2 parent stable family is the ideal. No argument there. It is also the minority of families in the US.

I raised my 2 daughters alone for many years. Over 50% of all marriages end in divorce, so most children are with one parent or the other. Your logic would ensure a lot of kids would be without homes Hortlund. Because if "you can't provide a mother figure and a father figure" you shouldn't adopt.

Or are you opposed to straight single parent adoptions as well?


I dunno MT, when I was working in that court, I got to decide on adoptions, and I gotta tell you, *all* the single parent adoptions I handled were cases where the husband or wife wanted to adopt their spouses child from a previous marriage or whatever.

I know that it is leagal in some cases for a person to adopt someone, but the law specifically states that such adoptions should only be granted if there are special circumstances. I worked there for a little over two years, and I never saw any such application, nor had anyone else I worked with ever handled such a case. So I dont know how common those adoptions are.

Having said that, sure it is better for the child to have one foster parent rather than growing up in an institution. But at the same time, it might be better for the child to have a "real" foster home when he/she is 2 yrs old, instead of being adopted by a single parent when he/she is 1...

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #327 on: August 05, 2003, 01:00:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You mean early in his life? I had my mom around till I was about 8.

But child adoption doesn't necessarily imply a young child, some children get adopted as old as 18 I believe.
-SW

In Sweden you can adopt somone at any age.

Offline Thud

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« Reply #328 on: August 05, 2003, 01:00:35 PM »
Well Hortlund, if not being able to provide a mom and dad environment does intervene with gay couples being able to adopt, than you're also implying that 'regular' couples should be prevented from divorce/separation while raising kids. And not allowing singles to reproduce for that matter...

I sincerely doubt that having two same-sex parents is more damaging to the child than having just one, which is the norm by todays standards.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #329 on: August 05, 2003, 01:05:23 PM »
Sorry Hortlund, I just don't get it.  You yourself admit to being raised in a single parent home and you seem to have turned out okay.  You even made it to be a judge for heavan's sake.  But here you are arguing that a person must have a mother and father and use it as justificatiion for denying gays the right to adopt.:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

That is quite possibly the most confusing thing I've ever read on these boards.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
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