Brady, not to whine, dude.....

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Batz
I believe brady set cv hardness at 4k instead of 8k, thats all cvs not just the f4u fleets. Thats purposely done to stop fleet parking and is in line with other setups. Its not f4u exclusive no matter what you may think.

Too late. It's been admitted that the composition of the F4U fleets was purposefully done to make them easier to sink. Nice try, Jethro.

Originally posted by Batz

The fleet spawn area is 2 and 1/2 sectors south of 13 and 19 is just over 2 sectors from 11 and 10. So either way whats the big deal?

Fine ... then you wouldn't mind the change. I'll put you down as a "yes."

Originally posted by Batz

You need to talk to kanttori about changing the fleet spawns. Thats done by the map maker. Brady cant "balk" at that because its not within his control. The onething players can do to see to it that the fleets stay a float is cap them and not bring them in close. This isnt pointed at you but in general. But even so it solves just about everyone of your complaints.

And I gave Brady an easy fix (or at least a decent compromise) since I suspected that. F4U-1ds at a19.

Originally posted by Batz

Spend some time convincing your fellow admirals and you may actually get some where. Brady has been consistant in his replies.

Don't give me that crud. You know as well as I do that I can't make hard-headed "commodores" do what I want them to. LOL

Originally posted by Batz
As for the rest of your whine its just the same 'ole brady hates me and navy planes.... So what...........

And it's just the same `ol you running to his side and blathering any `ol gibberish to support it. Still trying to influence the coaches from the sideline? You and me both, brother. Only I'm not holding Brady's strings, am I?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by brady
Prety much your favorate ride is always Available Arlo, the thing is that while the singel CV fleats are easer to make respawn, they are only down for around 10 min untill they do respawn, now their are two fleats that suport the F4U's, so at any one time one is bound to be close to the action, certainly withen 5 min flying time.

LOL ... Do you even look at this map from the allied side when you pop in? I mean ... other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk?

[Slash27]

LOL ... Do you even look at this map from the allied side when you pop in? I mean ... other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk?

   Is this going to be adressed? The fact that a CM circumvented normal gameplay to take control of a fleet while its was under heavy attack. Then managed to park it in perfect range for SB, Pts, and suicide Peggys to make quik work of 4 CVs in the TG. Who regulates the CMs for the CT anyway?

[hazed-]

Bah let the IJN have an advantage for a change. All too often the players who fly as Axis in PAC setups have to suffer a heavy deathtoll through having to fly very old types versus late Allied planes.


And im not speaking for selfish reasons , Im not flying as IJN so i really dont care too much but what i do know is when i have flown for IJN in CT in the past 90% of the time you feel exactly the same as you have described for LONG periods.

i.e. when flying zeros because no Niks are made available and having to fight P38s and f6fs and F4us. Its not a great deal of fun and thats why IJN often have poor numbers.Let them enjoy a bit of advantage as a fair exchange for all those times when they have had to fly as the underdog.I think it would be fair to switch it now and then, you'll get more people in i bet.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by hazed-
Bah let the IJN have an advantage for a change. All too often the players who fly as Axis in PAC setups have to suffer a heavy deathtoll through having to fly very old types versus late Allied planes.

Since when? Not the last few late PACs.

Originally posted by hazed-

And im not speaking for selfish reasons , Im not flying as IJN so i really dont care too much but what i do know is when i have flown for IJN in CT in the past 90% of the time you feel exactly the same as you have described for LONG periods.

Again ... since when? Brady pushes the F4F vs Zeke in the Guadalcanal terrain. When it comes to late PAC, the F4U hasn't had any sort of free reign since I've been playing. It's either not in the set at all or it's handicapped by putting it on one field in bumfug backwaterville or on a single CV group (2 if you count TWO variants being allowed) that is DESIGNED to be sunk easily if it's brought closer than 3 sectors from the fight.
 

Originally posted by hazed-

i.e. when flying zeros because no Niks are made available and having to fight P38s and f6fs and F4us. Its not a great deal of fun and thats why IJN often have poor numbers.Let them enjoy a bit of advantage as a fair exchange for all those times when they have had to fly as the underdog.I think it would be fair to switch it now and then, you'll get more people in i bet.

Nobody is even suggesting taking away the N1K. Nobody is even suggesting limiting the N1K2J. Some have suggested adding the C-Hog as something of an equalizer to the N1K2J but I haven't. I merely made some suggestions that allow the F4U players a chance to fly their ride in as uninhibited manner as the N1K drivers. Actually ... not even going that far since N1Ks are available anywhere. N1Ks are available and within a decent range of the fight at all times. That's fine. Now "Mr. Balanced Playing Field" needs to learn what that phrase actually means. And that's accepting the assumption that the average F4U driver  is on an equal footing with the average N1K driver with odds that are somewhat equal.

So there we stand. I suggested some very reasonable options to allow the F4U to stay in constant play. Even if only one is within the power of Brady to allow .. he won't because he has an unrealistic fear about that plane. I've not suggested limiting or eliminating any of the aircraft or vehicles the IJ players have - not the N1k2J .. not the Ki-67 ... not anything. I've not suggested adding anything to the Allied planeset (and others who have ... have reconsidered).

And to this you add "Let the IJ players have an advantage ... for once?" *chuckle*

Let Brady just add the F4U to the friggin planeset for the Allies without having to turn it into a song and dance routine to "limit it's negative impact" ... for once. The BS argument about that specific plane model unbalancing a late PAC setup got old long ago. It's been disproven. And what's really funny is ... since it hinges on, of all things, the F4U's top end speed superiority ... you'd think Brady woulda slit his throat before allowing P-47s free reign.

[brady]

"other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk"

 I compleatly resent any implication that I in anyway use my posation to do anything of the sort, heck i dident even know I could take controle over a fleat unless I outranked someone, If I take controle of a fleat during gameplay it is because I have the rank to do so and I use that player privalage to use it how I see fit. Since I am aware now that I can take controle as a CM from a player I will when acting as a player try and be aware that I dont take controle of a fleat unless I realy do out rank the player I am taking it from.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by brady
"other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk"

 I compleatly resent any implication that I in anyway use my posation to do anything of the sort, heck i dident even know I could take controle over a fleat unless I outranked someone, If I take controle of a fleat during gameplay it is because I have the rank to do so and I use that player privalage to use it how I see fit. Since I am aware now that I can take controle as a CM from a player I will when acting as a player try and be aware that I dont take controle of a fleat unless I realy do out rank the player I am taking it from.

ROFL! I suppose you forgot that I was there and witnessed it. Slash made mention numerous times to you that it seemed odd that he couldn't take command of the fleet since he outranked you in the rankings. You basically replied, "Durrrr ... ok." Slash asked you to either command it smarter or turn over command to someone who would. You basically replied, "Durrr ... didn't know I could do this." Slash begged and pleaded with you to at least get the fleet out of harm's way. You basically replied, "Durrrr ... didn't know I could do this." The fleet was sunk. Slash and I both congratulated you on your service to the Emperor. You basically replied, "Durrrr ... didn't know I could do this."

Intentional sabotage or extreme stupidity? That's the only two options I can figure ... unless you think you can come up with something better - then feel free to enlighten me on what went down from your pov, sir.

[brady]

Then perhaps you witnesed me saying he could take it back if he wanted, the only reasion I took it in the first place was to turn it out of the torps way and stear it behing the island whear their were no SB's. As to the input from other players to me while I am in comand of a fleat, I appraciate their input but I dedide what is to be done with it right or wrong, and as you are I am shure well aware their is no defense from a sucide atack and that is waht eveunatialy sunk it.

[Mister Fork]

Don't worry Brady, the CT always balances out one way or another.

The interesting thing I find is how dynamic everyone who plays in the CT. If you're being overwhealmed by a CV, guys up in planes to sink the ships.  If there are tanks on the ground, you up in ground attack planes. If the enemy fighters outclass you, you simply climb higher and stick closer together.

Lets face it, when it comes to the skill of the CT player, we would kick arse in a mini duel with the MA dweebs.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by brady
Then perhaps you witnesed me saying he could take it back if he wanted, the only reasion I took it in the first place was to turn it out of the torps way and stear it behing the island whear their were no SB's. As to the input from other players to me while I am in comand of a fleat, I appraciate their input but I dedide what is to be done with it right or wrong, and as you are I am shure well aware their is no defense from a sucide atack and that is waht eveunatialy sunk it.

To which he replied .... "No Brady. I can't. It won't let me."

Did you relinquish command? No. Even after Slash informed you that he thought your status as a CM was affecting ranking you didn't.

[brady]

All I saw in the bufer was " I dont Want it", but I was prety busy so I may of missed it. Like I said I will pay more atention to this in the future.

[scJazz]

:: carefully dresses in fire retardant suit, with fire retardant jell underneath and grabs fire extinguisher::

Gentlemen please understand the following comments are not personal attacks. Also, try to keep in mind that I have no axe to grind. Finally, I am not a 100% CT flyer so I have nothing invested in this. I fly in the CT because I get tired of the N1K/Spit/P51/La7 swarms of brainless MA pilots and enjoy matching attacks with the pilots in the CT because you are all generally more skilled.

1) Brady and the CV control
Brady, I find it totally impossible to believe that you were not aware that you could control a TF irrespective of rank. In BoB I watched as you grabbed control of a CV and yanked it around despite the fact that I was rank 16 at that point. I also find it insulting that you expect us to believe this. In your defense however it is true that the western side of the island with A20 on it only has a single SB as opposed to the 3 SBs on the East so the idea of moving the TF along that coast is a better idea. That you did not release control when asked repeatedly is no credit to you.

2) N1Ks or the lack of 20mm armed Allied aircraft
Today I watched 4 N1Ks strafe a VH into oblivion with their 20mm guns. True there were 4 bombs dropped, 4 500lb weapons plus several hundred 20mms equaled dead VH. Not 2 hours earlier I had to fly 3 sorties to pull this off (B26 strike which totally missed, 2 fully hvy P47 strikes which finally destroyed it). Each of these sorties had to be flown heavy with the attendant risks and delays while a few N1Ks were able to blast the same type of target with minimal delay, risk, or annoyance.

3) 20mms revisited
In general I like the idea of hardened ack. However the lack of 20mm shells in any of the allied aircraft poses another special problem in dealing with them. I watched a field get de-acked today in astonishingly short order by the 20mm armed IJN planes. Previous attempts by me to accomplish this same goal met with a level of success that can only be called poor. I tried using bombs, rockets, and guns; and yes I did kill the ack but not with the same level of ease that a N1K with a pair of 500lb bombs and 900 20mm rounds could and did.

4) 20mms Take 3
Anyone care to comment on how to deal with KI67s without a 20mm gun? Here is my comment... I am so not going to try this trick again. P47s, F6Fs and F4Us no dice! Those KI67s have uber guns, are way to fast, and take more punishment than it is worth. 2 days ago the only air-to-air deaths I suffered came at the hands of the KI67s (other than the 2 vulches which I don't count). Before anyone goes off and starts with the "well fly better blabber" an anecdote from last week in the MA on Baltic... flying KI61 sorties I intercepted and destroyed 5 formations of B17s and Lancasters in consecutive sorties.

5) Arlo's perception that Brady hates F4Us
Personally, I find this difficult to understand. I regularly argue with squadmates about sorties in the Hog. I've even taken an insubordination charge for refusing a direct order to fly that amazing hunk of garbage in the MA. Great it dives really well and has a nice roll rate. Tell that to the LA7 that flew loops around us after climbing to 10,000' and just blew my vertical stab off. Brady, honestly none of Arlo's suggestions regarding the Hogs seems out of order. Put them in... really... just do it, even the F4U-4 (perked at around 10 or so). If necessary grab one of the German planes (190D9 for instance) perk it for around 5 give it to the IJN and call it a limited run prototype KI84. If nothing else this will make Arlo look like a whining love muffin since you did what he swore you never would. At best it will show that you are a member of the community and do actually listen to all the wonderful advice that we heap upon you.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by brady
All I saw in the bufer was " I dont Want it", but I was prety busy so I may of missed it. Like I said I will pay more atention to this in the future.

Alright, I'll accept this as sincere and I apologize, then.

Now ... back to the F4U issue. Since the fleet composition and spawnpoints are out of your hands, will you consider either allowing them at least one shore spawnpoint (be it A19, A18, whatever) or enable the F4U-1d to be flown off of TF01 as well as TF04? US fleet carriers at that time fielded both the F6F and the F4U and I still assert that having the F4U more readily available to players in the CT who enjoy flying it does not affect play balance. Again, your argument that the F4U's top end speed (or even it's ammo load or lethality) gives it an unfair edge over the "George" (or even the "Tony" for that matter) flies in the face of your allowing the P-47 to have more latitude. This is indeed a "fun play" issue as well. If you were to ask all the CT participants at this time if my suggested compromise is unfair, I wonder what the overall concensus would be? Do all IJ players (dedicated or those who hop back and forth) think that the F4U has any inherent advantage over them in a N1K2J that isn't directly attributed to pilot skill?

Please be aware that I've flown both the F4U (both variants) and the N1k2J in this setup and have noticed from a personal standpoint how much easier it is to land kills in the N1K2J than it is for either F4U.

I'm even willing to duel you in the DA - Me in a "George" vs you in either F4U in the current setup. Winner accepts the other's options and either implements changes or accepts things as they are. I'm not a "George" vet.

[brady]

"Brady, I find it totally impossible to believe that you were not aware that you could control a TF irrespective of rank"

 Since I generaly have a low rank taking a CV is not somthing I pay much atention to, I take it for granted that I can take controle. Their are a lot of things to do with powers and setings for the CT Staff that even now I am not fully aware of, just recently in fact I was enlightened as to our abailitys to Mute people for being disruptave for example. The Insunation that I am lying to you hear is very offensive.


 2)The VH's are set to 5K in this set up, A fully loaded P47 has aprox. 3500 pounds in ordance alone slung under it, the equilvelent of over 3 Georges in ordance. I belave that in the incedent you describe above a Panzer was also present and had been working on the Hanger for a while, so his damage coupled with all the bombs from the Georges could of easly resulted in a Hanger that could of surcome to strafing in a short order.

3) The Allied planes are far more capable platforms for dieacking a field than the Georges are, Not only can they pack 1000 pound bombs which are much easer to hit with than 500 pounders, they also pack 6 to 10 Rockets, one rocket can kill a gun, fire a couple 3 into an ack cluster and generaly you get them all, the way the clusters are aranged they are far more sustiple to bombs and rockets than they are to strafing, in this area the alies have a clear advantage they have Better stand off weapons, the Japanese have to get in fairly close to actualy hit the guns. Personaly I have much easer time in geting my 50Cal's onto a gun and hosing them down since they have a much longer range.


4) well other than fly better...The Ki 67 has  a very weak tail section, and they have very weak wing tip's, I come up underneath and fire into the fuselage from below infront of the tail this typicaly snaps them off, another good spot to aim for is the wing outboard the engine necal, they snap off prety easy to. The Ki 67's tail gun also has a much more limited covered arc than say a B26, it cant depress as much so coming in from bellow and at dead six is a good spot since they cant get you their. They also have just 12.7 mm Ho 103's in the tail which have a much shorter effective range than the 50cal in the US fighter's, the 20mm Ho-5 in the dorsal turet has a very limited covered arc and can be easly avoided by staying low and behind. Of course their are some compleatly uncovered aspects defensively on the Ki 67 as well.

5) lol


 Arlo: First off TY.

 On the F4U issue, I have no intentions of changing anything in the present set up, I appricate that it is you favorate plane and that you would like to see it more readely available and I understand that you will most likely not stop campagining for it to be more readly available, I also understand that my points on why it is limited are falling on death ears in many instances, this is expected and frankely normal. I also am not at this point going to expound again as to why it is limited to just those two CV group's since it is not geting through anyway

[Batz]

more of the same "po' ole allied farm boys"........


You know brady can click 1 button and sink a fleet right? or jump a fleet across the map should he chose, right? So it sounds kinda stupid for you all to claim "Brady took control of our fleet just so it could get sunk".

Vhs are 5k for all aircraft, 50 cal planes can put more rounds per sec, and thus cause more damage per sec then a niki. So to claim vhs are easily strafed by nikis is more laughable bull****.  At 5k lbs it takes just 2 of almost any allied aircraft with just bombs or 1 jug or 1 dhog or 1 f6f with bombs and strafing tp kill a vh.

Killing ack by strafing is much more easy for 50 cal planes then the niki because of the higher rate of fire, like strafing the vhs 50 cal planes put more rounds per sec on target then the niki. More bull****. Plus the ack are in 3 group clusters where 1 100lb (or 2 rockets) can kill all three easily.

50 cals out range the type 99s on the ki67. In a 3 bomber formation their are only 3 20mm and their line of site is from dead 6 and higher.

It seems most of your whines are based on your own "skillz" not on what is really "balanced."

Arlo

It doesnt matter where f4us are placed or at which cv. I personally dont care if they are at 19 or 20 or whatever. But I dont make those calls. I certainly dont sgree with you that putting the dhog at a land base is "only fair". I dont see how it matters one way or the other.

The cvs travel 1/3 of a sector in 12 min. All cv take 4k bombs to sink. On the 4 cv fleets there is only 1 main cv and it still only takes 4 k bombs to sink. If that main cv is sunk flight stops. All the cv fleets give ya is more ack but they are just as easily sunk or flight stopped as the single cv fleets. The f4u-1 is is FAA colors so its at a single fleet. The Dhog is the only other f4u in the setup so he stuck it at the other single cv fleet. The 4 cvs fleets have f6fs. Perfectly logical.

I know you claim its a conspiracy against you f4u types but you all are a dime a dozen. Should you give up more will take your place. So I wouldnt expect brady to cater to ya. Which should be obvious by now.

You may wanna take up your "free the f4u campaign" with the other cms.

But if anything it seems to me that if the problem is that the cv get sunk to "easily" (whether it be because of poor admirals or suicide ki67s) then wouldnt it be better to argue for the cv to be hardened? Or to restrict the ki67s to just a few bases? Or both. Or is your whine a veiled attempt just to show how "brady hates f4us"?