Author Topic: Airforce, Marines or Army?  (Read 13155 times)

Offline Selino631

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #90 on: March 16, 2011, 09:29:36 PM »
so the airforce has started turning overpaid boy scouts into real ground pounders?  :huh  definitely something new...the only "infantry combat trained" airforce ground troops i had any contact with were a company strength detachment attached to 82nd ab units training in aberdeen md (no, i have no idea what they were doing there)...and they couldn't hold off a fireteam of bootcamp fresh jarheads.

you don't need to try and oversell the role the pj's or cct's, or whatever the af has going now...and it's not like they are really "doing the army's job"...augmentation is just that, fill in...especially areas where seasoned combat troops shouldn't be utilized...not that it isn't just as dangerous where they are, it's just that commanders don't like putting front line troops in rear guard duties.
 
   You....
Mostly you're full of it (ie. completely wrong).  My base has deployed a few hundred USAF members for ground duty in Army units.  Some of them find themselves drivers or gunners in Army convoys, some find themselves walking the streets as they augment Army infantry units.  Not one of these augmentees are involved in air operations, rather they are bailing out the Army, doing the Army's job for them, because the Army can't get the job done without USAF troops filling in the roster.

My current job is as an air advisor to the Iraqi Air Force, but before I deployed I had to go through a rather intense combat skills course taught by ex-SEALs, ex-Rangers, 100% special forces or experienced SWAT officers.  That's ground combat training, in case you're not following along.

And guess what - because of my job, if I ever end up on the ground, it'll be me, my 9mm, and a radio, by myself, pretty much in the situation that every Army troop is trained from day one to avoid because isolated troops end up dead.  But that's MY combat environment, me and my M-9 and a radio against all comers until rescue shows up.  That's why our SERE training takes so long (minimum 6 weeks plus advanced courses for high risk of capture and conduct after capture training), because when we find ourselves in ground combat, we're pretty much alone hoping to stay alive long enough for some snake eaters to bail us out.

And still, my wing has deployed only about 6 guys per year to flying jobs.  The other several dozen per year are doing ground duty, many of them filling Army jobs in Army units, eating Army chow, shooting Army bullets, doing the Army's job.  You don't see many Army troops filling in to fly nuclear capable strike aircraft...  We got that covered, and we'll keep doing the Army's job as long as the SECDEF keeps signing the title 10 waivers (google it if you don't know what that means).


.... and you. your argument is now invalid.





Mason,

Its whatever u prefer, each branch has there downs and ups. This is for something ur going to have to reaserch on your own, Talking to servicemen can be a pain, Each branch is going to say completely diffrent things, and rag on the other branch.  The 3 branches you r looking at , Army, Air Force, Marine Corps. All are simular and diffrent in ways. just to kinda sum it up.

Air Force- TOUGH to become a pilot, thats why faar majority of the AF is on the ground, doing mostly administive task and of couse all the ground jobs that need done for the air force mission, select jobs are "highspeed" and go out on missions and do Army like tasks. Yes, as stated before they do augment airmen to work with Army units. In general you probably wouldnt do too much in the Air Force unless u got a select job.

Marine Corps- Big in Tradition, but lack in technology. But make up for it in there skill. Downside is good chance somewhere down the road u'r likey to get screwed over in someway, (has happend to 4 of my friends, and they've only been in about a year  :uhoh )

Army- LARGE branch, pride is taken more unit based vs branch wide like the marine corps. In general, the latest and greatest technology (haha not in my unit *cough). Wide selection of jobs and also plenty of advanced skills that you can learn not offerd in the marine corps such as Airborne, Ranger, SF, Pathfinder, Air Assault and Arctic School. and you get guarenteed job selection (which is a BIG DEAL).






« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:41:18 PM by Selino631 »
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Offline TOMCAT21

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #91 on: March 16, 2011, 10:33:37 PM »
In the end, It is What you want to do. Been Navy and been Army. both have their good and their bad.
RETIRED US Army/ Flying and dying since Tour 80/"We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded." - Capt. Richard Winters.  FSO 412th FNVG/MA- REGULATORS

Offline rogwar

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #92 on: March 16, 2011, 11:30:56 PM »
Mostly you're full of it (ie. completely wrong).  My base has deployed a few hundred USAF members for ground duty in Army units.  Some of them find themselves drivers or gunners in Army convoys, some find themselves walking the streets as they augment Army infantry units.  Not one of these augmentees are involved in air operations, rather they are bailing out the Army, doing the Army's job for them, because the Army can't get the job done without USAF troops filling in the roster.

My current job is as an air advisor to the Iraqi Air Force, but before I deployed I had to go through a rather intense combat skills course taught by ex-SEALs, ex-Rangers, 100% special forces or experienced SWAT officers.  That's ground combat training, in case you're not following along.

And guess what - because of my job, if I ever end up on the ground, it'll be me, my 9mm, and a radio, by myself, pretty much in the situation that every Army troop is trained from day one to avoid because isolated troops end up dead.  But that's MY combat environment, me and my M-9 and a radio against all comers until rescue shows up.  That's why our SERE training takes so long (minimum 6 weeks plus advanced courses for high risk of capture and conduct after capture training), because when we find ourselves in ground combat, we're pretty much alone hoping to stay alive long enough for some snake eaters to bail us out.

And still, my wing has deployed only about 6 guys per year to flying jobs.  The other several dozen per year are doing ground duty, many of them filling Army jobs in Army units, eating Army chow, shooting Army bullets, doing the Army's job.  You don't see many Army troops filling in to fly nuclear capable strike aircraft...  We got that covered, and we'll keep doing the Army's job as long as the SECDEF keeps signing the title 10 waivers (google it if you don't know what that means).


Hopefully the original post quoted was a joke. All branches can come into harms way. Plus I've seen some of the Air Force Pararescue course and it appeared to be a real impressive kick in the nads. Air Force spec ops wings certainly get down and dirty. What about close air support as well from A10s and others?

I'm not an AF guy but just trying to help set the record straight.

Offline rogwar

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2011, 11:40:19 PM »
17 and a half, wanna serve so bad...but I'm not sure what I wanna do. for a while I  was thinking Army, but ive yet to hear much good about after your serve. it seems they offer the world and you dont get toejam. I havent really looked into the Air Force or Marines, but I'm lookin for some vets thoughts on which branch to do. thoughts?

Figure out what trips your trigger and go sign up with an appropriate branch. You will get out of it what you put in...


And in relation to college:

Kenny: I went to the University, got a Bachelors degree and it won't help me get a job.
Bobby: What did you study?
Kenny: Majored in 17th century Belgian philosophers with a minor in modern graffiti.

Offline MarineUS

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2011, 06:30:39 AM »
 




Marine Corps- Big in Tradition, but lack in technology. But make up for it in there skill. Downside is good chance somewhere down the road u'r likey to get screwed over in someway, (has happend to 4 of my friends, and they've only been in about a year  :uhoh )

Army- LARGE branch, pride is taken more unit based vs branch wide like the marine corps. In general, the latest and greatest technology (haha not in my unit *cough). Wide selection of jobs and also plenty of advanced skills that you can learn not offerd in the marine corps such as Airborne, Ranger, SF, Pathfinder, Air Assault and Arctic School. and you get guarenteed job selection (which is a BIG DEAL).

It's called the Green weenie

And the bold statement is false. As a Marine you can go to Jump School, Ranger school etc.
We cross train - REGULARLY with all branches - even SEAL training.
The unit I'm with had an air drop platoon (recently disbanded due to lack of use).
You get guarenteed job selection in the Corps too. You just do more. We have hybrid MOS's.
Like, ya know, when that thing that makes you move, it has pistons and things, When your thingamajigy is providing power, you do not hear other peoples thingamajig when they are providing power.

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Offline Vudu15

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2011, 06:37:55 AM »


Ill hang on to my window seat <15T UH-60mech/repair and now crewchief.
snag you Airframe and powerplant licence and you can work pretty much and where that has helos.
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Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2011, 08:09:50 AM »
Mason just remember these quotes during missions from our past :)

Soldier: This sucks
Ranger: I like it when it sucks
Special Forces: I wish it sucked more
Air Force: Geez, it looks like it sucks down there!

just my 2Cents  :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Offline The Jekyll

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2011, 08:19:29 AM »
Oh, and never forget those patriotic women who love men in uniform. And they wonder why we do it :)
Yea, simply because I can

Offline Tyrannis

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2011, 08:27:26 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Ill hang on to my window seat <15T UH-60mech/repair and now crewchief.
snag you Airframe and powerplant licence and you can work pretty much and where that has helos.
i shall be looking in the papers more now for this headline:


"Man takes down Russian MIG-29 with epic tomahawk throw"
 :lol

Offline Selino631

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2011, 11:11:41 AM »
It's called the Green weenie

And the bold statement is false. As a Marine you can go to Jump School, Ranger school etc.
We cross train - REGULARLY with all branches - even SEAL training.
The unit I'm with had an air drop platoon (recently disbanded due to lack of use).
You get guarenteed job selection in the Corps too. You just do more. We have hybrid MOS's.

not anymore. 2 of my friends in the marine corps enlisted as 0311's. during basic they got switched. 1 is now IT and the other is commo. the're pissed
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Offline eagl

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2011, 03:48:25 PM »
Hopefully the original post quoted was a joke. All branches can come into harms way. Plus I've seen some of the Air Force Pararescue course and it appeared to be a real impressive kick in the nads. Air Force spec ops wings certainly get down and dirty. What about close air support as well from A10s and others?

I'm not an AF guy but just trying to help set the record straight.

All the flying jobs are extremely hazardous, without exception.  Every second of every flight is a disaster waiting to happen, even in a training environment.  We try to mitigate the risks and hazards by going overboard with procedural training (generally at least 2 full years before a new pilot is sent off to do a real-world mission as aircraft commander, sometimes longer than that) but we still fight against the mishap rate even after ruthlessly washing out anyone who shows a lack of ability or improper attitude about the whole business of flying.  No aircraft type is immune to the risks, which is why an AWACS driver gets the same flight pay as an A-10 driver or a nuke qualified B-2 driver.  That said, some missions do have higher immediate risk factors, and those tend to be fighter/attack types.  Airframe doesn't really tell the tale however...  When the fight at Roberts Ridge kicked off, the first flight on the scene was a pair of F-15Es, and they went down low to strafe, something that just a few years earlier would have been harshly discouraged because nobody ever thought it made sense to send a $75 million strike fighter down low to strafe.   But when the guys in trouble on the ground called for 20mm instead of 2000lb LGBs, the strike eagles went in and strafed.  Did a damn good job of it according to the after action reports.

Any time you go low (below about 15,000 ft), everyone gets to take a shot at you on the way by.  Low is dangerous, low and slow is worse, which is why the A-10 is built like a flying tank.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2011, 04:34:52 PM »
not anymore. 2 of my friends in the marine corps enlisted as 0311's. during basic they got switched. 1 is now IT and the other is commo. the're pissed
well, the word "guaranteed" in the marine corps simply means they give you your first choice if other factors don't stop you from getting it...in the marine corps everyone is 0311 first and foremost, regardless of what your daily job is...all marines are issued a rifle and all are expected to know how to use it if called upon to do so...

i'm betting your buddies asvab scores showed higher than average apptitude which would make them prime candidates for assignment to other mos's that may be seeing a sudden short fall due to attrition...especially if the 03 field is already full with manpower...if the corps was suffering heavy casualties and losing front like grunts, your buddies would have gotten their wish.
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Offline Selino631

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2011, 04:45:13 PM »
well, the word "guaranteed" in the marine corps simply means they give you your first choice if other factors don't stop you from getting it...in the marine corps everyone is 0311 first and foremost, regardless of what your daily job is...all marines are issued a rifle and all are expected to know how to use it if called upon to do so...

i'm betting your buddies asvab scores showed higher than average apptitude which would make them prime candidates for assignment to other mos's that may be seeing a sudden short fall due to attrition...especially if the 03 field is already full with manpower...if the corps was suffering heavy casualties and losing front like grunts, your buddies would have gotten their wish.
I showed 1 of my buddies who's a 0313. he HIGHLY disagrees with that. he said that there is too big of a diffrent from SOI and MCT. he says MCT is almost crap training, the basic's on how to "get by". while SOI goes over what "Infantrymen" need to know. so you can not say that everyone in the marine corps are infantry. you can say Everyone in the marine corps knows how to shoot a RIFLE, but then again.. dont most of the other branches do that too?
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2011, 05:05:04 PM »
I showed 1 of my buddies who's a 0313. he HIGHLY disagrees with that. he said that there is too big of a diffrent from SOI and MCT. he says MCT is almost crap training, the basic's on how to "get by". while SOI goes over what "Infantrymen" need to know. so you can not say that everyone in the marine corps are infantry. you can say Everyone in the marine corps knows how to shoot a RIFLE, but then again.. dont most of the other branches do that too?
your buddy is a new age marine...tell him to go talk to an old sergeant major...someone with more than 10 years in the corps...it's what all marines were taught before the clinton era turned boot camp into scout camp...somewhere within the last 12 years or so, the concept of "joint operations" has changed basic training in the corps even more than the clinton era which forced a large number of old time veterans out before they were eligible for full retirement.

i have no idea what soi is but i'm guessing it's what used to be called ait (advanced infantry training)...that's what 03's received out of boot...06's (field radio operators) would get assigned to grunt units and train with them out of comm school...some 18s would do the same thing depending on their assignments...and yes basic didn't cover everything that was taught in ait...however, when i was in, anyone from any mos could get transferred to a grunt unit and be able to function as part of the unit with very little additional instruction.
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline MarineUS

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Re: Airforce, Marines or Army?
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2011, 05:47:34 PM »
not anymore. 2 of my friends in the marine corps enlisted as 0311's. during basic they got switched. 1 is now IT and the other is commo. the're pissed
I call bulltoejam.
They probably had an "open ground contract" or w/e it's called. The recruiter always says it's the MOS they want - but it just means the Corps places you wherever the hell it wants.

Your friends are misinformed.


------------
SOI is school of infantry. It's JUST like MCT but more in depth for combat missions. MCT isn't a "get by" course. Only someone with an ASVAB too low to do anything other than 0311 would say that.
MCT you still learn to breach and clear buildings, suppress and move etc. - you just do it faster because you have more than 1 job to do. Anyone other than 0311's prove they can multi-task.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 05:51:07 PM by MarineUS »
Like, ya know, when that thing that makes you move, it has pistons and things, When your thingamajigy is providing power, you do not hear other peoples thingamajig when they are providing power.

HiTech