OH yeah Lets Help IRAQ

[mrblack]

To kill you'r enemy in battle is one thing.
But to smash in there already dead or dying corpes is just plain evil and sick.
 
I had friends that where Rangers during samolia although they where not there  and the images of them being drug naked thrue the streets is still freash in my mind.

So for It to be happening again Is just a little to much.
I like many grew up during veit nam.
And I remember hearing on TV about the body counts and such.
And If not for Nixon pulling us out who knows I might have went there.

And this Is starting to smell like the same chit.
I HATE Muslims and I don't care if you don't like it.
I am a 46 Yo jewish man and I have my reasons.
And this crap just ads fuel to the fire.

[Twist]

Originally posted by Frogm4n

Until their religion is brought into the 21st century those people will never want to be free or have a democracy. It just doesn't work in some cultures.

I spent 6 months over there, this statement just about sums it up. There are a LOT of people over there who say they want  democracy but they either don't know how to fight for it or don't want it bad enough. We can't force it on them, it doesn't work that way. Until the populace decides they are fed up with these chicken **** terrorists and take action, our servicemen will continue dying.

On another note, I was recently offered a chance to join a construction team as an instrument tech to go over and help build/repair a few powerplants there. They could not, by agreement, allow us to carry weapons so it wouldn't have mattered what they were willing to pay, I wasn't going. Not to mention my wife's reaction when I mentioned this.  Sheesh, I was just askin'. So now we'll have unarmed civilians running all over the place who will need protection along with the troops already in place who also need watching over.

I hate to say this but the old analogy about a room full of monkeys and a football comes to mind when I think about this.

Things do need to change and soon! Taking the gloves off is my first choice but how can we do that and not alienate ourselves from the innocent people we are trying to liberate?

I can only pray our leaders will make the right decision and soon.

[mrblack]

Originally posted by Twist

Things do need to change and soon! Taking the gloves off is my first choice but how can we do that and not alienate ourselves from the innocent people we liberated?

I can only pray our leaders will make the right decision and soon.

Well I think We should care less what we look like to them!
our first and only concern should be the safety of our people military and civillian.

And On a further note.
Some of you may think that I'm a salamander.
Well thats ok LOL I am LOL.
But I CARE about every single young service persone over there
And It could be YOU someday If this crap esculates(draft).

So don't bust my balls to much for caring about young Americans.
I know that I'm about as PC as a fart in church.
But thats just my way.

I love my country as I'm sure you do as well.

[Twist]

Originally posted by mrblack

I HATE Muslims and I don't care if you don't like it.
I am a 46 Yo jewish man and I have my reasons.
And this crap just adds fuel to the fire.

I personally do not care for the Christian hating fanatics that call themselves muslims. I have however, in my short life, met several devoted muslims who I call friends. One went so far as to present me with a gift of the Koran, so that I might read and understand his beliefs. I wanted to reciprocate with a bible but he told me he had already read the entire thing in college, then proceeded to quote at random just to prove it. He was a captain in the Royal Saudi Air Force.

I can't say that I hate them but I wouldn't turn my back on them either. So many are uneducated and brainwashed into thinking western culture is the spawn of satan himself. Heck, I feel this way too sometimes when I flip channels and forget to skip MTV.
 

It won't happen overnight but these people can be brought out of the stone age eventually. How much are we as a nation willing to sacrifice for others to enjoy the freedoms we are so richly blessed with now? Why don't we ask some of the soldiers over there right now how they feel? Are they ready to quit and come home? I'll bet they aren't.....

[Munkii]

If a draft is institued, I know that Canada will receive another influx of young people.  I know that I for one wouldn't go if I were drafted.  It's not because I don't have a sense of patriotism, or a sense of duty.  It's because I refuse to go fight for oil and someone's political agenda in a country that neither wanted our help nor wants us invading their country.  If I were drafted to join a team to search for OBL, would I?  In a second, but he's not a priority any longer.

[mrblack]

Originally posted by Munkii
If a draft is institued, I know that Canada will receive another influx of young people.  I know that I for one wouldn't go if I were drafted.  It's not because I don't have a sense of patriotism, or a sense of duty.  It's because I refuse to go fight for oil and someone's political agenda in a country that neither wanted our help nor wants us invading their country.  If I were drafted to join a team to search for OBL, would I?  In a second, but he's not a priority any longer.

Well put and you make a very good point!
What ever happend to OBL?

As far as running from you'r duty as an American?
Well thats something you and you'r family would have to talk over.
After all It Is you'r life and you should have the choice to use It as you see fit.

[Twist]

Don't want us there?

Back in '91 a friend and coworker almost lost his life in Kuwait/Iraq, the story of his close call never gets old.

He usually follows that story by talking about the reaction of the locals, both military and civilians, when the troops arrived to claim another recent battlefield. They practically worshipped them! There were Iraqi soldiers crying and falling all over our guys, thanking them for coming, begging them to help free their families from the current regime. Although we could have, and should have, we did not, because we had no backing from the UN at the time. Taking over Iraq was not part of the resolution we we're operating under.

Let's not judge an entire country based on the actions of a few fanatics, who probably enjoyed a lavish lifestyle under the old regime or are being paid well for attacking our troops now. We're not just fighting Iraqi's, we're taking on finacially backed fanatics from all over the world! There is no way they are going to let democracy into their little corner of the planet freely, they will lose the control they now have over these people.

We we're warned beforehand this would not be a cakewalk.

[mrblack]

Well Twist Maybe so but in this case we need to bring a bigger stick If you will.

Knock these clowns back into the stone age.
And find out who Is funding these jerks.
It just seems to me like we are offering up our troops like lamb to the slaughter!

I mean good Lord can't the Brass do better than this?
I think Bush screwd the pooch when he declarde hostilities over.
hell they aint over far from It.

Like my Grandpa used to say Crap or get off the pot!
lets go at this full bore or for God's sake bring our people home.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Twist
Don't want us there?

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was, I never said I don't want us there.  IMO though, I do not think it should be a draft war, if we're going to Iraq to liberate them, or whatever the official reason we are there for now, do it with the armed forces that volunteered to join.  If we can't raise enough troops to join through regular recruitment, then we shouldn't be there.

[mrblack]

Originally posted by Munkii
I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was, I never said I don't want us there.  IMO though, I do not think it should be a draft war, if we're going to Iraq to liberate them, or whatever the official reason we are there for now, do it with the armed forces that volunteered to join.  If we can't raise enough troops to join through regular recruitment, then we shouldn't be there.

Dude at the rate we are losing people and the need for man power over there
Who knows?

I think bringing back the draft would be the last thing Bush would do.
But make no misstake If he needed to He would.
We are really only fighting on one arena right now.
Can you imagine If we where fighting on two or three?
Hell we are short of some MOS possitions now.
If they try to do too much with too little they will need a draft.

[Twist]

Originally posted by mrblack
Well Twist Maybe so but in this case we need to bring a bigger stick If you will.

Knock these clowns back into the stone age.
And find out who Is funding these jerks.
It just seems to me like we are offering up our troops like lamb to the slaughter!

I mean good Lord can't the Brass do better than this?
I think Bush screwd the pooch when he declarde hostilities over.
hell they aint over far from It.

Like my Grandpa used to say Crap or get off the pot!
lets go at this full bore or for God's sake bring our people home.

I personally like the 'bigger stick' idea. Then again, being the mean spirited republican that I am, I think those terrorists captured should be hung in the market squares with a bleeding pig tied to their persons. But that wouldn't make for good TV now would it? Oh my, what would people think. I have taught my son to return 10 blows for every one blow given him in a fight, we should be doing the same.

Trace the money back, absolutely!

Hostilities have ended as far as the 'war' is concerned. We are no longer using armored divisions and air sorties to fight so that part is done. I think the term 'hostilities' was misused in this case, that part could very well drag on for years.

If it wasn't for the political game being played out in the news and the 'court of world opinion' I bet we would see a lot more bellybutton kickin' taking place over there.

Sorry munkii, I thought you were saying they didn't want us there.  My bad.

[Twist]

It's almost 2am, gotta turn in, thanks for the chat.

[mrblack]

Originally posted by Twist

If it wasn't for the political game being played out in the news and the 'court of world opinion' I bet we would see a lot more bellybutton kickin' taking place over there.

And that is what Is getting our young people killed!:mad:
A bunch of Fat a sses in Washington p ussyfooting around.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
Wonder if you would still have that opinion if you had close friends serving in iraq right now, as i do, Saurdaukar. Us being there is pointless, those people like their dictator, and if they ever got the balls to overthrow saddam they would have put another dictator in place.
There will be another dictator in iraq within 10 years if we stay or leave.

I know a good number of people in both Iraq and Afghanistan right now, one of whom was KIA.

I appreciate that we are both concerned for the safety of our friends and family overseas, but I disagree that our protective emotions should be shaping our opinion of the 'reason' for this deployment.

[mrblack]

Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I know a good number of people in both Iraq and Afghanistan right now, one of whom was KIA.

I appreciate that we are both concerned for the safety of our friends and family overseas, but I disagree that our protective emotions should be shaping our opinion of the 'reason' for this deployment.

Geezus man you got a speech writer LOL.

I mean so much said with so little .