OH yeah Lets Help IRAQ

[Creamo]

[-dead-]

Perhaps you boys should write to your president and tell him that from now on you only want your country to invade decent, civilized countries who's populace won't put up a fight and will have the common decency to be properly cowed by a display of US aggression. Such countires may be fairly thin on the ground, though.

Ironically the pople on this board who froth most at US deaths (whilst paradoxically seeming to be in favour of invading Iraq in the first place), are probably exactly the sort of people who'd be out in the woods, slitting the enemies' throats or taping enemy jeeps blow up, if a foreign country ever invaded the US.

Strongly patriotic people, in other words.

Certainly the rabble-rousing "kill the ragheads" rhetoric is very translatable into Iraqi terrorist speak:

"I HATE Americans and I don't care if you don't like it.
I am a 46 Yo Iraqi man and I have my reasons.
And this crap (insert 'collateral damage' incident here) just ads fuel to the fire."

"Sorry people but when I read stories like this I want to take my 46 year old arse over there and KILL evry single American I see."

"Then again, being the mean spirited talib that I am, I think those Americans captured should be hung in the market squares with a bleeding pig tied to their persons."

What sort of twisted terrorist scum would say such stuff, eh?

"I have taught my son to return 10 blows for every one blow given him in a fight, we should be doing the same." - That's a great one - sounds like it comes straight out of the Koran.

Hmmm and there was me thinking the US & Iraqis had very little in common, culturally... maybe you do have common ground.

US deaths are an inevitable side effect (hmm perhaps that should be "collateral damage") of US policy. No other country forced the US to invade. There's still no sign of the Weapons of Mass Distract... er ... Destruction. Any country that gets invaded by a foreign country will have people resist the invaders. The US would. The UK would. No matter how much people might have hated the last leader. Were the US invaded tomorrow and a new regime installed, would those who voted for the Democrats resist the invaders as much as those who voted for the Republicans? I'd go for "Almost certainly".

Besides - and this may be the crux of the problem - compared to Iraqi civilian deaths, US troop deaths are like tears in rain.

[Kirin]

Well said -dead-!

[Westy]

"Sorry dude but I have a distaste for any people that is so stupid as to bite the hand that is helping it! They are stupid and they smell funny! "


 heh.  Nothing like a solid show of support for Boroda's opinion the US is carrying on the "white man's burden"  




"And I don't think that they are worth 1 American life"

I agree with you there 100%.  But the driving forces behind this war believe something there is worth the deaths of others don't they?

[Westy]

"US troop deaths are like tears in rain."


Really?  Tell that to VOR.

[bigsky]

Originally posted by -dead-
Perhaps you boys should write to your president and tell him that from now on you only want your country to invade decent, civilized countries who's populace won't put up a fight and will have the common decency to be properly cowed by a display of US aggression. Such countires may be fairly thin on the ground, though.

Ironically the pople on this board who froth most at US deaths (whilst paradoxically seeming to be in favour of invading Iraq in the first place), are probably exactly the sort of people who'd be out in the woods, slitting the enemies' throats or taping enemy jeeps blow up, if a foreign country ever invaded the US.

Strongly patriotic people, in other words.

Certainly the rabble-rousing "kill the ragheads" rhetoric is very translatable into Iraqi terrorist speak:

"I HATE Americans and I don't care if you don't like it.
I am a 46 Yo Iraqi man and I have my reasons.
And this crap (insert 'collateral damage' incident here) just ads fuel to the fire."

"Sorry people but when I read stories like this I want to take my 46 year old arse over there and KILL evry single American I see."

"Then again, being the mean spirited talib that I am, I think those Americans captured should be hung in the market squares with a bleeding pig tied to their persons."

What sort of twisted terrorist scum would say such stuff, eh?

"I have taught my son to return 10 blows for every one blow given him in a fight, we should be doing the same." - That's a great one - sounds like it comes straight out of the Koran.

Hmmm and there was me thinking the US & Iraqis had very little in common, culturally... maybe you do have common ground.

US deaths are an inevitable side effect (hmm perhaps that should be "collateral damage") of US policy. No other country forced the US to invade. There's still no sign of the Weapons of Mass Distract... er ... Destruction. Any country that gets invaded by a foreign country will have people resist the invaders. The US would. The UK would. No matter how much people might have hated the last leader. Were the US invaded tomorrow and a new regime installed, would those who voted for the Democrats resist the invaders as much as those who voted for the Republicans? I'd go for "Almost certainly".

Besides - and this may be the crux of the problem - compared to Iraqi civilian deaths, US troop deaths are like tears in rain.

well said, but me thinks the people doing this are not all iraqes. g.w.b. said  bring it on and now the people who hate the usa are doing that. but bush choose the battle ground and that is the homeland of the many of them. it brings to mind the old movie "red dawn" except we are not the invaded. i know if some country invaded montana, i would pity the fool who i would capture. because the state montana didnt sign the geneva convention accords. we are not obligated to treat them humanely nor would i. expect no mercy.... i wouldnt give any nor talorate those who would. i was aginst this war from the start because i knew what was goining to happen. and it happening now.

[AVRO1]

Great ideas MrBlack
That would be a great way to turn the UN against you.
Including Great Britain.

Instead of letting your emotions control you, try controlling them.
Try looking at things from there perspective instead of your own biased one, which is obviously not valid for them.

The Iraqis had little before the war, then most of the infrastructures went down (power, water...) after you came and you expect these people to all love you.
They have less then they had before damn it.
Once the rebuilding is done and they have power, running water and jobs then they will have more.
These people do not see that, they see there own misery.
They do not know what it will be like in a democracy because they have never known democracy.
These people need something to hold on too.

Hope is a powerfull thing.

Try grasping basic concepts before posting your crap please.


War is the greatest of all crimes; and yet there is no aggressor who does not collar his crime with the pretext of justice.

Gotta love Voltaire.

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Westy
"US troop deaths are like tears in rain."


Really?  Tell that to VOR.

Gladly - I'd like to think he'd understand my underlying sentiment too (but maybe I'm just being an optimist). Certainly his CO (I guess) Major General David Patraeus seems a humane guy - and on the ball about winning the Iraqis over. Which is probably the reason Mosul has been relatively safe up til now.

I don't wish VOR or any of the troops ill, but I also extend such civility to the Iraqis too, and especially to the poor civilians who are caught in the middle of it and have been for the last 12 years. Of course troop deaths count - but so do all the other deaths that the US Occupation government are not counting.

[cpxxx]

To the likes of Twist and Mr Black who favour the big stick and the gloves off  approach. I would recommend a book I have called 'Brits - The War Against the IRA'.  by Peter Taylor.  It is part of a trilogy about the Northern Irish conflict which describes the British forces attempts to combat the IRA.  The current situation in Iraq has many parallels with Northern Ireland but has the potential to be a lot worse.

The big stick doesn't work. All it would result in is the whole Iraqi population turning against the Americans  What does work is a slow burning campaign of counter intelligence and specialist units designed to track down terrorist cells.  It means training Iraqis to do this work and maintaining a cadre of informers in the ranks of the terrorists.

The Brits learned that the hard way and I'm sure they will be quick to help. But they had one priceless advantage they were fighting a small group with limited support in a country they hadn't invaded six months earlier. (Six hundred years earlier actually! It was a very long war !)

You all need to get used to the idea that this is going to be a long bloody war and it is a war. The fantasy that American troops will be off the streets by next June is just that a fantasy. By the time this is over children even now playing on the streets of Chicago or Dallas will die as soldiers fighting a vicious guerrilla war in a country they are barely aware of now.

It needn't happen, as Col Hans Von Luck a distinguished German Panzer officer in WW2 observed when he fought Americans.  'The Americans were able to evaluate their experience and through flexible and unconventional conduct in a battle convert it into results'.

That's what's needed in Iraq.

[AVRO1]

Originally posted by -dead-
Gladly - I'd like to think he'd understand my underlying sentiment too (but maybe I'm just being an optimist). Certainly his CO (I guess) Major General David Patraeus seems a humane guy - and on the ball about winning the Iraqis over. Which is probably the reason Mosul has been relatively safe up til now.

I don't wish VOR or any of the troops ill, but I also extend such civility to the Iraqis too, and especially to the poor civilians who are caught in the middle of it and have been for the last 12 years. Of course troop deaths count - but so do all the other deaths that the US Occupation government are not counting.

I agree 100%

If you treat them well then you have the morale high ground.

If you make attacks that cause needless civillian deaths then you have lost that high ground.
Which would reinforce the terrorists claiming that the US is moraly corrupt.
You cant say it is wrong (killing innocents) when terrorist do it and go do it yourself claiming it is right.
That would be extremely stupid and moraly corrupt.

Treating them well will prove they are full of you know what.

[Westy]

-Dead- I know you did not mean any ill will towards VOR or anyone else over there.  I saw you're post and several weeks worth of reading posts by people minimizing American soldiers deaths by comparing them to the larger numbers who've died in robberies or traffic accidents kind of reached a peak with me.

[mrblack]

My view on this IS should we be there? I don't know.
But we are there so what now?
We must do all that we can do to insure the safety of our troops.
Are there going to be casulties yes It Is a war.
But the way In wich these soldiers are dying is most diturbing to me.
I believe preventable as well.

Like I said before we may not agree on eachothers polotics but I hope we can agree on we are losing WAY to many young people over there:mad:

[Maniac]

Hey guys, you cant go home before you find the WMD...

[Twist]

Wow...paraphrased me completely out of context and managed to change the entire meaning of my posts in which I stated what I would like to see happen followed by a reality check and what we need to be doing.

Run, don't walk to the nearest liberal media venue of your choice -dead- , there is a job opening with your name on it.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by -dead-
Perhaps you boys should write to your president and tell him that from now on you only want your country to invade decent, civilized countries who's populace won't put up a fight....

Who said anything about France?