How to get a high rank

[Urchin]

I've always referred to them as the "Big 4".. Nik/Spit9, P51D/La7.

Of the 4, only the P51 isn't what you could call dominating.  The B is in the same boat as the D, except it has less firepower and worse visibility.  On the whole, an La7 will absolutely destroy a P51 in A2A.  The N1K/Spit9 is about a draw.. the N1K turns better, the Spit9 does most everything else a tiny bit better, firepower is about the same.

But seriously, going back to Beetles "point" or argument, or observation, or whatever.  Ok, so the "Big 4" are all pervasive.  Not going to argue that, at any given moment I'd say they make up 50% of the planes in the air, and everyone flies them.  They also have a tendency to "inflate" ones "ability" in an A2A fight, thus inflating stats.  So I still think it is true that most people in the top 100 for fighters rely on their plane to get them there, and would not be there if not for that.

I will say that numbers in a plane does not equal time spent in the plane though.  Last tour I had 60-odd kills in a Chog in 3 sorties, and 60 odd kills in a n1k2 in about 6-7 sorties.  The rest of the month I spent in 190s mainly.  So did those 10 sorties inflate my stats?  Certainly, although I can't say by how much.

Just doing some "stat-research" and maybe some interpretation, on my own.  Lets look at Kappa, since he finished 1st in fighters last month.  Overall K/D of 14.5, K/S of 5, K/H of 13.7, Hit% of 19%.  Ok, Hit% is tough to "game".. so he's a good shot.  Figure even if you shoot 60% on vulches, you arent vulching all the time, so to hit with nearly 20% is good.  K/H of 13, pretty good.  That stat is kinda tough to "game" to, imo.  You'll get a super high K/H vulching... but nobody vulches all the time.

The K/D and K/S are good, but here is where I'd make Beetles "argument" that they are strictly plane-related.  Looks like he flew 3 planes this tour, the P38, the P51D, and the 262.  Just going off the "stat" pages (which don't count augers and such as deaths, so they'll be a little higher than what the "score" pages give him).  

K/D in the P-38 is stellar.. 13.73.  Not many people could get a K/D that high in a P-38.

K/D in the P-51... 29.5.  Why do you think his K/D in the P-51 would be higher than in the P-38?  Especially since it would appear that the P-38 is his "main" ride... wouldn't it make more sense to assume he's be more "skilled" or "better" in the P-38?  That is kinda puzzling.  

K/D in the 262..  34.6.  Again, how strange.  He had about 1/3rd as many kills in the 262 as in the P-38.. but his K/D is so much higher.  I think he is a 262 ace and he's been holding out on us with his reputation for flying the P-38.  

I can't look up the K/S value for individual planes, but I'd be willing to bet he got more kills per sortie in the P-51 and the 262 on average than he did in the P-38.

But what do you think would have happened if instead of flying the P-51D and the 262, Kappa had gotten an inexplicable urge to fly the 202 and Spit 1.  Do you think he would have finished #1 in fighters?  I think the answer is pretty clearly not, but feel free to tell me why you think I'm wrong.

[Steve]

they need the speed. they need it to get to and away from the fight quickly and with impunity.

Lazs, I know ya don't fly any late war stuff so I'll comment on the above.  There are SO many la7's, ponies, D9's, and tyhies in the arena that there is no such thing as leaving the fight w/ impunity, sans the  262. It is definitely more probable that one could disengage w/ a pony or d9 than say.. an FM2, but  in the planes we are discussing, leaving w/ impunity  is not something that is available.  If you screw up badly in a furball and want to escape, chances are very good that someone in a higher E state speed plane is going to bounce you and try to make you pay.  It's not a given, I'll grant you, but it's a good possibility.

[beet1e]

Lazs, Urchin – thanks for wading in with some excellent posts. I’m glad that you guys can see what I’m saying, along with others like xtremeJ and moot, even if some others cannot.

Shane, it’s really no surprise that you’re screaming the loudest at me. You are the epitome of an EasyMode™ ding-a-ling. In tour 47, a full 70% of your 370 kills were scored in the Big Three subset, with 204 of those being in the LA7 alone. If you are as good as you so tediously tell everyone you are, why the need for such überity? I see you tried the 109G2 – 1 kill, 1 death; maybe you gave up on it when you found it wasn’t sufficiently über for your purposes.

I remind those just joining that I observed that with very few exceptions in certain tours, everyone in the top 100 fighter ranks has at some time flown the Big Three subset in that tour. We’ve found one exception so far. One. I could understand the likes of Shane getting bent out of shape if I had said something like ”everyone in the top 100 relies absolutely on the Big Three subset”. That is clearly untrue and I never said that. In some cases, those in the top 100 got only a relative handful of kills in the Big Three, but fly the Big Three they did.

However, in Shane’s case in particular, that statement (had I said it) would be perfectly true. And that’s because the Big Three is pretty much what he flies, hence 70% of his kills last tour were in those three planes. And that’s one of the two reasons he’s squealing at me so loud right now. The other reason is of course that he has an ego the size of a water buffalo which, I suspect, has been dented by these revelations.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Steve
Lazs, I know ya don't fly any late war stuff so I'll comment on the above.  There are SO many la7's, ponies, D9's, and tyhies in the arena that there is no such thing as leaving the fight w/ impunity, sans the  262. It is definitely more probable that one could disengage w/ a pony or d9 than say.. an FM2, but  in the planes we are discussing, leaving w/ impunity  is not something that is available.  If you screw up badly in a furball and want to escape, chances are very good that someone in a higher E state speed plane is going to bounce you and try to make you pay.  It's not a given, I'll grant you, but it's a good possibility.

No, what lets you get away from a fight with impunity is speed AND acceleration.  So an La7 is perfect, the Tiffie isn't far behind.  What typically happens if you are in a "late war" plane like a Dora is this.  You'll be fighting someone, and a spit comes along.  Ok, now you decide to run.  Fortunately, even thought the Spit accelerates a lot better than you do, you are faster, so you can dive away.  Now, you are on the deck with a spit and a whatever chasing you.  Now another high plane (any plane) dives on you.  Well, now you cant just run away, so you have to manuever.  So, you manuever so the cherrypicker/herder doesn't get the kill.  Now, the spit catches up and at this point you are dead.  You can no longer dive to get out of trouble, and you can't accelerate away from the spit, nor the other two random planes (one of which will be one of the "big 4" 95% of the time).  The La-7 can get out of almost any situation because you can manuever hard enough to bleed off EVERYONES speed (including the guy that just dove on you), then level out and be out of guns range in 3 seconds.  Well, 5 seconds for Hizookas.  That is why people fly the "el gay"... even though it is quite a formidable fighter, people use it to run other people down and herd them back into the ****fire/nik conga-line, or to run away in case the one guy everyone is chasing gets some friends.

[Shane]

 this isn't about what or how i fly. it's about you getting caught with your trousers down to your ankles.

you were wrong in your observation and arguments. been proven. can't be denied. now if you want to squirm and dance and further revise your argument feel free, but better do a better job of it or yet someone else will come along and prove you wrong. again.

[Steve]

Hey Beet, speaking of the G2, I tried it twice this  tour for the first time.  It's a nice lil ride.  fun stuff!  I still hold to my request.  Wing me once in a pony, then I'll reciprocate in the G2... what say you?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Urchin
The La-7 can get out of almost any situation because you can manuever hard enough to bleed off EVERYONES speed (including the guy that just dove on you), then level out and be out of guns range in 3 seconds.  Well, 5 seconds for Hizookas.  That is why people fly the "el gay"... even though it is quite a formidable fighter, people use it to run other people down and herd them back into the ****fire/nik conga-line, or to run away in case the one guy everyone is chasing gets some friends.

Hehe, do you think that's why Shane flies it?

Shane: No sir. YOU are wrong. I said what I said, and it's almost completely true. So far we have found only ONE exception to what I said. ONE! Refining my arguments? I have had to spell it out for you, and have tried to explain. Of course, people like you then accuse me of "dodging/squirming/dancing". BS. I said what I said, I was careful in what I said, and with the exception of Tarmac/tour 45, I was right. And you can't prove otherwise. You have no material data to disprove what I said. You can't even come up with an additional exception to what I said. All you can do is rant like a ten year old, wailing in a flood of tears because his audience has figured out the card trick he tried to perform.

Steve, yes the G2 is a good challenge. Any 109 has been for me. Hehe, I used to suck so badly in WB 109's that I submitted my 109 type rating for cancellation. But like Urchin says, it's not a good plane if you're looking for rank. And it's a disaster to fly alone with no wingman. In real life it wouldn't have been so bad, but in real life it probably never fought against P51/LA7/Spit ix. It's slower than an LA7 and P51, and probably the Spit ix; it doesn't roll well, it doesn't turn as well as any of the Big Three. So in Urchin's scenario, things will pan out pretty much as he says. When you engage a con and another one shows up, there's an excellent chance that #2 is going to be a P51, a Spit ix, or an LA7. As Urchin has said before, even the 109G10 versus a Spit ix will end in stalemate. Others have said the G6 is no match against a Spit ix, and maybe the G2 has no chance.

[Hornet]

Since this turns on the plane vs pilot debate, the other flaw in beet1e's point no one has touched is the comparision between the Top 100 and the next 200-300 pilots.

Beet1e's Big3+Subset, or Urchin's Big4 dominates the arena for popularity...that has been generally accepted. So is usage somehow less in the 200s or 300s in rank?

The only way Beet1e's point of the Top 100 making use of the Big3+subset becomes significant is if the next 200-300 pilots flew them less.  

The near total popularity of 4 aircraft erodes the concept of "easy mode". If everyone is flying one of these impossibly good uber-fighters what accounts for the seperation in scoring?

If HTC turned off all fighters except the Spit9 for 1 camp, it would be interesting to see just how much changed in the rankings.

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by beet1e
However, in Shane’s case in particular, that statement (had I said it) would be perfectly true. And that’s because the Big Three is pretty much what he flies, hence 70% of his kills last tour were in those three planes. And that’s one of the two reasons he’s squealing at me so loud right now. The other reason is of course that he has an ego the size of a water buffalo which, I suspect, has been dented by these revelations.

I can't believe I'm doin' this.....

Beets, I have seen how Shane flys many of his 'missions'. He flys them much the same way that I often do. That is...look for a sector with a lot more enemies than friendlies. Head there and look to bounce a bunch of guys. Before ragging him for 'flying the BIG 4', I suggest you fly a mile in his shoes . Take a G2 or G6 and head to a sector where you are outnumbered at least 4 to 1. Kill 3 or 4....then pop back in and rag away . (btw, been doin' this since the middle of last camp (mostly the G6). It is fun...but not conductive to survival.

I do believe you will find it is rather difficult to be successful flying your chosen rides with out a lot of help (.ie..plenty of friendlies so that attention is not focused on you).

[Toad]

High rank?  Don't shower for a month.

[Shane]

Originally posted by beet1e
Hehe, do you think that's why Shane flies it?

Shane: No sir. YOU are wrong. I said what I said, and it's almost completely true. So far we have found only ONE exception to what I said. ONE! Refining my arguments? I have had to spell it out for you, and have tried to explain. Of course, people like you then accuse me of "dodging/squirming/dancing". BS. I said what I said, I was careful in what I said, and with the exception of Tarmac/tour 45, I was right. And you can't prove otherwise. You have no material data to disprove what I said.
 

akak tour 47 ranked 124 ftrs, not one easy-mode plane.  there's your original observation and argument shot down in flames.

dmdcoach, tour 47, ranked 28 in ftrs.  not one easy-mode plane.

there's your second argument shot down in flames. it also serves to shoot down your first observation and argument.

both found within a 5 min persual of the stats/scores. for *one* tour. and since we're going by absolutes (yours by the way), you sure can't play the statistically insignificant card, now, can you?
want more "data?"  already found a few more absolutes ready to post. even quite a few more if you accept a >3% total kills in the easy-moders.

put these two together and the the most recent one above, in bold italic, is also shot down in flames. back to tower you go, wondering, htf he do that? face it. the attached gif says all we need to know about you.

you're pretty dense, no?

thank you for playing, please deposit another quarter and try again.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Beets, I have seen how Shane flys many of his 'missions'. He flys them much the same way that I often do. That is...look for a sector with a lot more enemies than friendlies. Head there and look to bounce a bunch of guys.

Read Urchin's post. The whole thing about Shane's #1 ride is that you can do that, and it doesn't matter if you screw up. If you do, all you have to do is run. The only thing that's likely to catch you is another LA7, and as Zanth once said there's a 50/50 chance that it's being flown by an idiot.

Shane:

akak tour 47 ranked 124 ftrs, not one easy-mode plane. there's your original observation and argument shot down in flames.

Erm... no. If you remember, I was talking only about pilots ranked in the top 100. 124 is not in the top 100. Case dismissed.

dmdcoach, tour 47, ranked 28 in ftrs. not one easy-mode plane.

Hehe, I'm glad you finally conceded to the easymode™ tag. Wow! you're right! So now, the number of exceptions to Beet1e's Rule has risen by 100%. It's gone from ONE to TWO!!!

ROFL - the thought of Shane pounding his way through the stats and scores. HTC better turn up the aircon in the server room.

Gonna hit the sack now. I shall sleep well. Toodle-Pip!

[Shane]

foucs, son, focus!! this is not about me or urchin. this is all about YOU.  you made it that way, we'll stick to topic, mmmmkay?

go back and read your original observation and argument.  here, let me quote it, yet again.

"And that is to locate a player whose fighter rank was better than mine and who did not fly the Easymode/Big Three subset of P51/LA7/Spit ix, because I never do. And what did I find? I couldn't find a single pilot who ranked higher than me who didn't fly one, two, or all three of those planes."

i do believe akak was ranked higher than you that particular tour. case dismissed. you are hereby sentenced to reading is phundamental 101 to be taken simultaneously with Writing Effectively 101 and English as a Second Language.

i guess now instead of being 100% wrong, you're 200% wrong!  finally!! glad you found something you're good at!!

lol, i found the proof of the pudding in less time than it took you to type that original WoT. it was easy because i actually engage a lot of people and get to know who flys what. you spent more time looking at stats than i did, for sure. how many did you toss out because they refuted your argument?

dance on, fred! hmm that's an insult to mr. astaire. you're nowhere near as graceful. i hereby dub thee... The Nutty Professor!

[culero]

Jeez Shane. Sig files that big R 4 putzez

culero

[culero]

Wait a minute....never mind

culero (was ignoring the obvious)