Author Topic: ACMs and info (Read 4840 times)

Murdr · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2004, 10:16:30 PM »

I was very tired last night when I posted, so here are the disclaimers:
I probably should have said too few want to take the time to do it. I also would add I am guilty of it to. I never arrived to that point of view until I started giving training in AW.

Rgr moot, that list can only be explained to a point, but they have to gain experience to recognize it.
Let me give an example of what I mean by pointing out "What you should have done...":

First I would have a new guy read something like this Basic ACM (token link for jackal)
Then I would keep refering back to those points in the DA.
"you did good on those first 2 merges, but then what happened? Were you watching what I was doing? You always need to look back after the merge so you know what the other guy is doing. I went up and you did a flat turn."
Then keep building on that, and throwing in new manovers.
"That was a chandell. Did you notice how I entered the merge that time? That is a tell-tale sign that its comming, but you might see it with a normal merge too. You have to adjust against it in the middle of your immel or you will lose position"
Then start throwing in change ups.
"that was a chop throttle immel. its hard to spot in progress if you're blacking out your first turn. if you are going to try it, you have to make that shot count, because you give E away doing it"
Being the salamander I am, I like to follow that with a lazy immel while they are test driving the chop throttle.

Over sessions, it naturally advances into more advanced stuff.

Stuff like that is worth months of flying time IMO.

Cooley · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2004, 02:06:14 AM »

*Robert Shaw's book "Fighter Combat"

* Spend Time in DA, film your fights, watch and learn

* what Slo said about flyin thru hangers, its fun too:D

*http://people.delphiforums.com/jtweller/training/tactics.htm#types lots good info here

DYGCaps · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2004, 07:35:32 AM »

Fighter Combat by Shaw is the bible of all online flight sims, Read it, it's well worth it...

http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/models.htm
This has plane specific info thats useful to newer players...

lazs2 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2004, 09:29:04 AM »

you can read all you want but you will never get good unless you fight other guys.. if you want to be a good dueler then go to the DA and duel a lot.. if you want to be good in an MA environment then go to the MA and.... get into as many fites as you can... (you don't really die, you just start over).

Nothing easier to kill than a guy that's been flying for a year doing nothing than B&Z in fast planes.

lazs

Shane · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2004, 09:47:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
you can read all you want but you will never get good unless you fight other guys.. if you want to be a good dueler then go to the DA and duel a lot.. if you want to be good in an MA environment then go to the MA and.... get into as many fites as you can... (you don't really die, you just start over).

Nothing easier to kill than a guy that's been flying for a year doing nothing than B&Z in fast planes.

lazs

any time one spends in the DA learning how to handle themselves will only complement their SA and MA abilities.

anyone can fly a fast plane in MA, just like anyone can hang around with a lot of buddies and rack up kills in a furball. it's what happens when your fast plane gets caught, or all your buddies shot down and you find yourself all alone is what indicates just how good one thinks they are.

lazs2 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2004, 10:40:43 AM »

well... I guess if your "fast plane gets caught" you had best be an La7. If you go into a furball with a lot of buddies.. they will probly get as many kills as you. If it's a real furball you are pretty much on your own. I figure every green guy is a "buddy" in a furball cause he looks red to the bad guys. He is a threat that they can't ignore. I like fairly even numberes in large furs because it gives the most targets for me.

being way outnumbered is hard to get kills without cannon planes... having large advantage in numbers makes the pickings too slim.

The reason planes like the la7 are so popular is because they can be untouchable with care or... they can mix it up if the odds are good. The real problem for them is if they have to fight a faster plane on their six and get tied up too long and the spits catch up too. Still... they have an excellent chance of killing the fast planes e and still gettin out before they get caught.

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2004, 12:05:58 PM »

Here`s another great site .
http://www.icongrp.com/~stagemon/ah/

Cobra412 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2004, 07:38:22 PM »

I'm currently reading Fighter Combat by Robert L. Shaw and I'd have to say it's a great tool to add with your experiences in the MA, DA, or CT.

For the average person coming into this game with little to no combat sim time it really helps. Graphs and experience alone aren't alway s enough for some to understand the concept of air to air combat. In a matter of days or even hours you can learn simple little things that in the past you may not have known or even paid any attention to. You'll better understand how and why others are able to defeat you and start to find ways to nullify what would have previously been your death sentence.

I'll warn anyone though who is looking into this book though it's not your average book. It's more of a book you'd find in a school type enviroment. Sometimes you have to read and reread areas to understand how everything goes together. It's definately not a "story telling" book like some are. It gets down and dirty and very indepth in many different aspects of air to air combat. It's definately worth the purchase price though.

One other thing to note is that not everything in the book will apply as not everyone in the arenas fight a logical or text book style fight. Adapting what you've learned and adjusting to every situation will be required. But overall many of the good sticks use every last bit of information in this book to some extent or another.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2004, 11:20:00 PM »

The other night some of our squad were having a free for all in DA. I heard a few comments about my flat turns. After looking at the film, I saw exactly what they meant. This was new, because one of the things I did learn in AW was how to use the verticle and turn out of plane. Then I wondered if I had my view keys set up right. Since part of the ACM is keeping the target in sight, having the view keys set wrong should effect the look of the ACM (e.g, 6, up6, up, upfront, front is going to give a straight verticle loop upleft6, upleft, leftfront is going to give something else).
Having the the leftfront, rightfront, leftrear etc. views set wrong had me not using them much leading to a lot of straight verticle loops and flat turns.

For one thing, I was using the left and right 6 to compensate for blind spots on my six. Now I think thats inefficient use of the views. I had the frontright and frontleft views in the default position. I don't think thats very good either. Looking more to the front as if leaning your head out the window seems a lot more effective and useful when flying into the "elbow". Seems a lot easier to control closure in those views than in the front view.

I don't know about anyone else, but the way I do ACMs is by knowing what views to use to reference the target. I think having the inbetween views set up correctly will greatly effect the look of the ACM's. Anyway, thats what I'm working on.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 12, 2004, 08:03:30 AM »

Here is another informative and enjoyable site. There is many days reading on this site alone. Some of these articles will give you a first hand/pilot view of planes, operations, etc. from those who were actualy doing it.
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com

Shane · « **Reply #25 on:** January 12, 2004, 08:31:44 AM »

for some info and graphics that display some of the more common manuevers.

http://www.vulch.cwc.net/acm.html

hitech · « **Reply #26 on:** January 12, 2004, 08:57:21 AM »

And use the film viewer to find out how you got beat.

HiTech

Shane · « **Reply #27 on:** January 12, 2004, 09:05:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
And use the film viewer to find out how you got beat.

HiTech

to clarify for some noobs (or even vets) who might not know... there are two ways to views films, with the 2nd listed being the best as it's a more powerful viewer.

1. film button on the AH splash screen. basic viewer, good for screenshots.

2. ahfilm.exe - stand alone program found in your ah directory. this viewer has a lot of features that make it a valuable tool.

gofaster · « **Reply #28 on:** January 12, 2004, 09:08:20 AM »

Easiest way to kill an LA7 is to let him get to around 1.2 behind you and then chop throttle, drop flaps, and roll with a bit of rudder until he flies past, then pop him.

That's all the ACM you need to know in the MA.

Oh, and avoid the HO at the merge by going nose low at 2.0 and wait for the LA-7 to blow past over your head, then pull up and go into a bank turn as the LA-7 tries to turn with you. Chop throttle, drop flaps, and get inside with a lead turn.

Shane · « **Reply #29 on:** January 12, 2004, 09:10:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by gofaster
Easiest way to kill an LA7 is to let him get to around 1.2 behind you and then chop throttle, drop flaps, and roll with a bit of rudder until he flies past, then pop him.

That's all the ACM you need to know in the MA.

Oh, and avoid the HO at the merge by going nose low at 2.0 and wait for the LA-7 to blow past over your head, then pull up and go into a bank turn as the LA-7 tries to turn with you. Chop throttle, drop flaps, and get inside with a lead turn.

methinks you need some time with me in the DA.