Author Topic: Exploring P-38 agility  (Read 6257 times)

Offline guttboy

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Exploring P-38 agility
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2004, 08:02:39 PM »
Widewing,

You gonna be up tomorrow in the AM at all?  If so would you care to show me some pointers in it?

Offline SixxGunn

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« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2004, 11:27:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by guttboy
Widewing,

Great post on the 38.  Unfortunately it flies NOTHING like the P38J model from Air Warrior (ahh the glory days of relaxed realism...LOL).   I have been trying the P38L from AH over the past week or so.  Great Jabo machine.  Still learning the ins and outs of it...maybe you and I could go to DA and I could learn a few things about it.

The main reason I went to the 38 is Fester handed me my arse in a sling a couple of weeks ago and it pissed me off SOOOOO much I decided to learn how to dogfite in it.

Anyone willing to show me the ropes in the P38 ill be sure to bring the beer!!!!!:D


Some things that will help.

1. Turn stall limiter off. (I know nobody uses it, so they say)
This off and you will see major plane performace gains in ALL aircraft.

2. Manually trim P38 (No combat trim)
You can pull out of 500 MPH near vertical dives easily manually trimming.

3, FLAPS, FLAPS, FLAPS. Flaps and throttle control are the key to the P38.

4. If you encounter alone P38 somewhere 1st thing you do is turn on your Film Recorder, It is ethier Fester, AKAK, or 38Maw. After they thrash you (me) good watch it and learn.

Also AckAck has some good P38 films floating around here some where do a search and watch them.

Remeber that the P38 loves the vertical but is very good near stall also.

Iam no where near as good as the above mentioned sticks but I do alright in the P38.

Offline Karnak

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Exploring P-38 agility
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2004, 12:57:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Here's another stunt the P-38 can do, that only the Zeros and N1K2 can mimic.

From a standing start (not using auto-takeoff), apply max power. Hold the P-38 on the runway until about 160 mph IAS, then pop it off, maintaining back pressure, pulling into a loop (leave the gear down if you wish). Add flaps until over the top, where you ease off power and pull out with plenty of ground clearance. If you try this with the Zeros or N1K2, work the throttle or you will impact the ground. Forget doing it with any Spitfire... They make big holes. I have film should anyone be interested.


I did this easily with the Spitfires.  Even the heavy Mk XIV didn't pancake. No flaps.

The P-38 I had trouble with at 160, but a 175 it worked if I used flaps.  Without flaps the P-38 made a big hole.

I did it in the Bf109F-4 and Fw190A-5 easily too.

The Mosquito can do it if you get up to ~200mph before pulling off the runway, slower and it can't complete the loop.

This ability doesn't seem too remarkable actually.
Petals floating by,
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             As she remembers me-

Offline guttboy

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Exploring P-38 agility
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2004, 01:22:26 AM »
THanks sixxgunn......I do fly with the stall limiter off in the acft.  As for manual trim I dont usually use it unless I really need to.  Might have to experiment with that.

REQUEST.....any of you 38 jockeys out there if you are up tomorrow during the AM and would like to help out with my learning curve I would really appreciate it.

Regards:D

Offline Angus

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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2004, 06:28:51 AM »
I took the gear up, throttled a little back when I went over the top, then full gas later, no flaps (forgot them).
Anyway TY for the information, gonna try the P38 more as a result. Guess I've always been using in in the wrong way.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Sway

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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2004, 07:18:59 AM »
Cut throttle into turn.. pump it on the way out. :D

Offline T1loady

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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2004, 01:50:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
What killed Tommy McGuire, the #2 P38 ace of WWII? Turning in a low, slow, P-38.  The allied aircraft are somewhat over modelled in this game.  Thanks for your post.  Interesting insights.



I cant agree more with the fact that the P-38 didnt kill him, his over agressive nature did.  Very rarely (before the jet age) does a pilot get killed becuse his own plane. (unless your in a POS) Tacitcs and a bunch of ability are what saves the day.. Not a super ride.  It helps, but the plane dosent get you a 6'oclock, the pilot does...  

Skip

Offline SixxGunn

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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2004, 04:14:36 PM »
Here's a write-up I found about McGuire.

Two things I found interesting.
1. After Bong got the record, McGuire was grounded till after Bong's Heroes Welcome and McGuire was out on an unathorized mission the day he died.
2. He was flying someone elses P38. (Yes a P38 is a P38, but different planes have unigue characteristics)

Here's the CUT AND PASTE.
_____________________________ _______________________

Enlisted as an Aviation Cadet at MacDill Field, Florida, July 12, 1941. Training at Randolph Field and Kelly Field, Texas. Commissioned 2/Lt. and received Wings in February 1942. Assigned Alaska Air Command. Arrived to the SWPA in Australia assigned to the 49th FG in March 1943 but saw no combat. Transferred to the newly formed 475th FG.
The 475th entered combat in August 1943 and McGuire quickly became an "Ace", destroying 5 Japanese E/A in two missions on August 18 and 21, 1943. Promoted to 1/Lt. in September 1943.
While flying 431st FS C.O. Frank Nichol's P-38, Lt. McGuire shot down three "Zekes", was himself shot down, WIA and had to be rescued from the sea by an American PT boat on October 17, 1943. McGuire was hospitalised until December 26, 1943 when, back in combat, he was credited with destroying 3.5 "Vals". Promoted to Captain, December 1943. McGuire was promoted to Major and C.O. of the 431st FS/475th FG on May 2, 1944.
Maj. McGuire's consistent position as "#2" in the unofficial "Ace Race" stood with a tally of 31 confirmed victories when "#1" Dick Bong was relieved from combat in December 1944. McGuire shot down 3 E/A on Christmas Day 1944 and added 4 more E/A the next day, December 26, to bring his score to 38 victories - This feat, which in part, helped earn McGuire the Medal of Honor also prompted Gen. George C. Kenney to "ground" McGuire at least until top ace Maj. Bong received his "heroes' welcome" returning back to the USA.
On January 7, 1945, McGuire flying Fred Champlin's P-38 #112, was back leading an unauthorized flight over the Negros Islands, Phillipines when they attacked a lone IJAAF Ki. 43 "Oscar" piloted by Warrant Officer Akira Sugimoto of the 71st Sentai. McGuire gave an order to "Save droptanks..." The fiesty Sugimoto amazingly, turned to fight and immediately got strikes on Douglas Thropp's P-38 but was chased off by Frank Rittmayer. Sugimoto turned and again dove on McGuire and Edwin Weaver who stayed in a defensive circle close to the deck. Sugimoto was later chased into the clouds and out of the fight by Thropp. Damaged in the scrap, Sugimoto bellied-in on Negros Island only to be captured and later shot by Filipino guerillas. Coming out of the clouds over Negros, Thropp witnessed an aircraft burning on the ground which he later realized was the P-38 of McGuire. Over 30 years later, it was learned that a second E/A, an IJAAF Ki.84 "Frank", piloted by Master Sgt. Mizunori Fukuda, had entered the fight and immediately shot down Maj. Rittmayer. McGuire had then tried to rack his Lightning in a violent turn to help out but only managed to stall his heavily loaded and underspeed P-38 which then dropped into the jungle below and crashed. McGuire was too low to bail-out and was killed instantly. In attempting to engage the E/A, McGuire disregarded some of his own "rules of engagement" which included:

- Never attempt combat at low altitude.
- Never let your airspeed fall below 300 mph.
- Never keep your wing tanks on in a fight.

Fukuda's Ki.84 was also damaged in the scrap and he crash-landed while his returning to his base.
_____________________________ _______________________

Offline T1loady

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« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2004, 05:12:20 PM »
Excellent write up and good post!  Enjoyed reading it.  Sounds alot like a story I read in a book.

SkipNutz

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2004, 05:12:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I did this easily with the Spitfires.  Even the heavy Mk XIV didn't pancake. No flaps.

The P-38 I had trouble with at 160, but a 175 it worked if I used flaps.  Without flaps the P-38 made a big hole.

I did it in the Bf109F-4 and Fw190A-5 easily too.

The Mosquito can do it if you get up to ~200mph before pulling off the runway, slower and it can't complete the loop.

This ability doesn't seem too remarkable actually.


It's not remarkable the way you're doing it.

Do it exactly like this:

Accelerate until the gear groans..Keep it on the ground.

Then, while still on the runway, pull up into a loop, no extending to build airspeed. no lifting off and flying on the deck, and keep the gear down throughout the maneuver. You must begin the loop at 150-160 mph. You will find this a whole lot harder to do.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2004, 05:34:44 PM »
I did it no problem in a Spit 9.. how much fuel are you loading?

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2004, 08:21:18 PM »
Widewing,

I wasn't staying low to build speed.  I was pulling off at 160mph (well before the gear groan) and pulling back into an immediate loop.  I was raising the gear as your description of "leave the gear down if you wish" made the gear sound optional.

Spit IX (easily), Spit XIV (barely), Bf109F-4 (flaps required) and Fw190A-5 (flaps required) all managed it at 160mph.  P-38L (easily, flaps required) managed it at 175mph.  Mosquito (flaps required) managed it at 200mph.

I loaded 25% fuel in all cases and minimum armaments for the P-38 and Mossie.
Petals floating by,
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2004, 10:19:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
I did it no problem in a Spit 9.. how much fuel are you loading?


50%, all types.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2004, 10:41:35 PM »
Just did it fine in a 190a5 with 50% gas.  

What alt field were you taking off from?  It just doesnt seem that hard, honestly.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2004, 01:57:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Just did it fine in a 190a5 with 50% gas.  

What alt field were you taking off from?  It just doesnt seem that hard, honestly.


A1 in TA.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.