Exploring P-38 agility

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Sway
Me also

Whoops, too late... Urchin and I spent an hour in the DA tonight, flying all kinds of fighters, even dive bombers. Great fun. He has a very clever move on the merge that took me a several sorties and a lot of trashed airplanes to figure out and counter.

We did a Spit9 and P-38 matchup. Yeah, the P-38 CAN turn with the Spit.. But Urchin always found a way to get the advantage. Hell, he beat me with his merge move when we both flew 38s. LOLOL

Clearly, the guy I fought in the SpitV and Niki was not anywhere near to Urchin's ability. But then again, very few players are up to Urchin's ability.

Anyway, it was a fun time and I surprised him by flying the B5n, which, of course, has no forward firing guns. I flew too close to his 6 with it and ran into him.

After about an hour Urchin had to go, but I had the most fun I've had a a long time.

My regards,

Widewing

[Sh00ter]

I'm slowly learning the 38 in here. I used the 38 mainly in AW with lots of success. In here it feels completely different. Better I think.
I've had some great fights, and some not so great fights. So if anyone has some helpful tips and/or films they wanna share..I'm all ears!
I do have one question though...I have heard a few times that you have to work the throttle on the 38  to get her to turn. I do a "little" but not much. When are you guys cutting throttle? At the top of a loop or what? Most of the time my throttle is to the firewall.

[Ecliptik]

I don't think I'd ever cut throttle near stall speed, but the 38 is capable of shedding speed very quickly by chopping throttle and applying rudder, so it can be a good thing to do to reduce your turning radius and get inside someone if you're coming in a little fast.

[Sway]

I usually let off throttle before turn and then pump it half way through, and I get accused of hacking FM. I get 38 to turn pretty tight, just doing throttle control.

[Ack-Ack]

I pretty much do the same thing as Lazer does, sometimes I'll jockey it a little more to get the lead on the bogie in the turn if it's necessary.  

There also times that I'll cut my throttle completely in a turn to stall out but that's only in stall fights and not regular angles fighting.

ack-ack

[Sway]

exactly...

[bbosen]

Originally posted by Guppy35

"LOL go read up again will ya storch.

McGuire was still carrying both of his drop tanks and was heavy on fuel when they encountered the e/a.  In essence his overpowering drive to pass Bong killed him, in trying to save his fuel to extend his flight, figureing the 4 38s could deal with the one e/a, leading him to order his flight not to drop tanks.

He tried to turn his 38 with those tanks on, was too low, stalled and mushed it into the trees below.

That says little about the AH 38 to me.  I don't see many 38 drivers in the game flying at full fuel and two tanks, entering a turnfight with anyone.

Dan/Slack"

Dan, I know that this theory has been proposed by a lot of knowledgeable people (including at least one of the American pilots that survived the incident), but I don't think it is consistent with McGuire's discipline and history.

I think it is more likely that McGuire had NOT expected to engage this bandit. There were four p38s and just one Oscar. By this time during the Phillipines camapaign, the Japanese were becoming very intimidated and gun-shy, having come out on the short end of many, many engagements with P38s. All of the planes were flying beneath a layer of grey clouds, and the single observed Oscar was travelling in the opposite direction from McGuire and his companions at high speed. He could easily pop up into the clouds and be gone long before the group of Lightnings could turn around. Hence McGuire ordered his companions to retain their [expensive] drop tanks so that the mission could be completed.  In fact, Japanese records indicate that that original Oscar did indeed scoot on home without tangling with the Americans in their powerful formation of four Lightning veterans.



But fate intervened in the form of a SECOND Japanese fighter, flown by an experienced ace who must have dropped out of the clouds in a position that made the Americans think that the first Oscar had somehow managed an astonishing turn back toward them. When that second Japanese fighter started shooting at McGuire's wingman, Tommy raked his big, heavy P38 around and took a snapshot, driving the attacker away temporarily and saving his wingman. But McGuire's borrowed Lightning was too low down to recover from the resulting accelerated stall, and the "Iron Major" rode it all the way into the ground on top of those two heavy drop tanks.

This view of the fight is supported by Japanese records brought to light several years after McGuire's death. Those records were unavailable when the two Americans who survived the fight were debriefed, so they may not have been aware that two separate Japanese planes were in the area.

Ultimately, we can never know what went through McGuire's mind during those brief moments. But this view seems more consistent with the Japanese records and with descriptions of McGuire's amazing abilities and well-documented tendency toward self sacrifice.




Regards,



-Peabody-

[bbosen]

Originally posted by Raptor01
When flying the P38 (which is almost always) my biggest fear is other P38's.

Me too! Amen. When I see a high P38 in the distance, I know I am in probably going to die. With most anything else, I have some way to prevail or escape. But against another P38 that has an altitude advantage.... I don't have any tricks. I'm just forced to engage on the other guy's terms and it isn't pretty!

[and frequently the other P38 is Rapotor01, but I'm generally above him.   Hehe]


-Peabody-

[blav]

sway would still like to get those lessons bro  

widewing great post most enlightening

[Widewing]

Originally posted by bbosen
Me too! Amen. When I see a high P38 in the distance, I know I am in probably going to die. With most anything else, I have some way to prevail or escape. But against another P38 that has an altitude advantage.... I don't have any tricks. I'm just forced to engage on the other guy's terms and it isn't pretty!

[and frequently the other P38 is Rapotor01, but I'm generally above him.   Hehe]


-Peabody-

Well, I think like most here, when I see a P-38 I think to myself it will be an easy kill. 99% of the time it is. For the reasons I have mentioned in this thread, most P-38s are little threat. Very few players know how to use the P-38 effectively, and even fewer can extract all it's capable of. Those that can will make you wish you had taken them a lot more seriously.

My favorite ride for brawling with P-38s is the F6F-5. Just my preference though.

This past Sunday, we took the whole squad into the TA to work on their P-38 skills. I took up a Spit V and headed for the crowd. Now, since you can't actually shoot them down, any kills you get are maneuver kills (but you must at least shoot them). I landed 11 kills which means I screwed 11 guys into the ground AFTER I had hit them. I was hit once in the process. We did this several times until the guys realized what they have to do to defeat the Spitfire. At that point, we switched to half flying Spits and half in P-38s. The P-38s won about 50% of the brawls. With that we headed for the DA and started over again. Well, the P-38s began to dominate the Spits to the point that the Spit drivers started upping 262s to get revenge.

Since Sunday, the squadron has tripled their kills in the P-38, and cut their losses by 2/3rds. One young fellow (high school student) named Wrecker landed 3 consecutive sorties of 10 kills or more. His comment was, "I absolutely love this plane now!" Wrecker turned around a 1/2 K/D in the P-38 to a 2/1 K/D in less than a week. I figure that if Wrecker stays here for a year or so, he will develop into one of the better sticks. This is why I urge players to spend some time in the DA and TA, regardless of what you prefer to fly. It will do wonders for your MA experience.

My regards,

Widewing

[Sh00ter]

Well I don't know how you deal with a Spit. Spits scare me when I'm in a 38 if they have any alt or speed advantage over me if they are flown well. I have out turned a few SpitV's and a few more Spit IX's, but I think that that is mainly luck on my part and an average hand in the spits. So what's this great secret to getting over on the spits? I see lots of the better 38 pilots waxing spits left and right, but I have a hard time with them if I don't have an advantage in speed or alt.

(Still learning)

[Delirium]

Most of them tend to over shoot... go horizontal, as you see them start to fall behind cut throttle and reverse. Doesn't always work, but most of the spit jocks in the MA always have the throttle firewalled.

[VooDoo]

It is nice to discuss virtual P-38 but what real P-38 was able to ? Any info about reallife Lightnings turn radius/time ?

[OLtos]

Widewings post is unbelievable!  I am P-38 fan and I spent my first 5 camps in Aces High glued to it and my p-38 simply never once EVER approached that kind of turning ability, flaps no flaps slow fazt didnt' matter.  In fact MY P-38 always always always breaks into a torque roll in a stall and always at higher airspeeds than the airplane on my 6.  I even had a JUG out turn me.  Nothing I did worked.  In fact the only way I can even stay in the AIR turning a P-38 is to engage the stall limiter, otherwise I blink and I have departed controlled flight.

I spent months trying to figure it out.  Then I got with a buddy of mine here in New England.  He said his 38 flew great and could not understand why I was having so much trouble.   So he came over and flew it on my computer.  Guess what it was exactly the dog I was complaining about.  He told me, and I have verified this, that the P-38 on his system handles radically different from the P-38 on my system.  And it isn't only the 38 that shows this inconsistency.  

He took to flying the P-51D.  Then we went head to head and there was nothing he could do to get away from MY p-51D(and I SUCK at turnfighting) in the Dueling arena and the Training arena.  He started noticing that all the things I complained about in the 38 were happening to him in the mustang.  So he came over and flew the stang on my comp.  He had no problems.  Stang flew much better on my comp than on his.

Apparently some of Aces High's airplanes behave differently on differening computers.

[Urchin]

I'd check your stick settings on that computer... or check to see if the little box marked "Stall limiter" is checked... that is the same thing as checking the little box marked "nueter my plane".