Author Topic: HTC: NOE Dar Bar (Read 4098 times)

HABICHT · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2001, 08:36:00 AM »

give us Wb kind of radar pls!

wastel

Eagler · « **Reply #16 on:** May 27, 2001, 09:17:00 AM »

still think NOE flights should show somehow when within a couple of miles of a base to simulate eyeball contact. The rest of the time they shouldn't show on bar if under dar.

Eagler

Tac · « **Reply #17 on:** May 27, 2001, 09:22:00 AM »

Do not show cons in dar bar OR dot bar if they are flying NOE. that is the proposal here.

Right now in the MA, if you want to...say, set up an HQ raid launched from one of the island bases and you want to fly NOE, there is no chance in hell you will accomplish it. People see a big bar dar streaming across empty ocean, nearing the coast.. and thats when they launch a few fighters to "check it out"... they see the 10ft NOE buffs with fishing lines coming from their ball and tail turrets and the whole raid gets shot down with ease.

If there was no bar dar when NOE, the buffs would be able to slip in close to their target and THEN they would have to climb to avoid the ack. Thats when they would leave NOE and be visible on bar + dot bar.. and thats when the enemy would give birth to their hemmorroids and scramble to their sissy flak tanks and dweebn1ks

Ghosth · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2001, 09:37:00 AM »

Eagler, have you ever overflown an enemy base at 500 feet in a b26? Even if you've got say 4 or 5 guys with you the ack will cut you to shreds! Ussually before you can drop any significant part of your load.

So the only way to survive is to pop up above 6k putting you square in dar for that last 10 miles.

It's getting shot down 40 miles from our target we object to, because of the current sector bar settings.

iculus · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2001, 10:26:00 AM »

I agree 100%!

No bar when NOE. I used to love a low level raid. Not possible here. This would probably cut down on the "30k buffs"

<S>IC

Eagler · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2001, 11:25:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth:
Eagler, have you ever overflown an enemy base at 500 feet in a b26? Even if you've got say 4 or 5 guys with you the ack will cut you to shreds! Ussually before you can drop any significant part of your load.

So the only way to survive is to pop up above 6k putting you square in dar for that last 10 miles.

It's getting shot down 40 miles from our target we object to, because of the current sector bar settings.

Yes but two or three 109f's with gonds and a goon could take bases without having to pop up into dar from NOE. I'm for NOE but think an eyeball contact warning, whatever the distance (1k out?) should be a last minute warning otherwise ur ack busting jabo kings will clean ur clock. What about once the first ack or structure falls, the dar bar lights up?

Eagler

Dowding · « **Reply #21 on:** May 27, 2001, 11:32:00 AM »

I like Eagler's idea.

Below 500ft there is no radar detection (dot or bar). As soon as the attack gets within ack range everyone in the field's country gets a great big colourful warning that base XX is under attack. Perhaps even have an audible warning like the Check 6 soundfile just to reinforce the situation. I know this has been suggested before.

Ghosth · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2001, 01:32:00 PM »

I'd have no problem with that at all eagler!

Either a host msg, wav file, or big con bar/dots.

Once in vis range of a field sentry's should report inbound cons no matter what alt.

Buzzbait · « **Reply #23 on:** May 27, 2001, 01:55:00 PM »

S!

This controversy is a result of not having any kind of historical reality present in this Sim. IE: THERE ARE NO FRONT LINES.

If there were front lines and soldiers with binoculars manning them, you'd need no reporting of NOE aircraft by a omnipresent AWACS in the sky. Instead, after a suitable delay, airborne aircraft would receive a chat message vector re. aircraft crossing the front lines at a certain point.

I have said it before, I'll say it again:

This Sim needs more thought re. the real and historical ways in which armed forces of this era confronted each other.

There should be a series of AI artillery/Anti-tank and MG manned strong points between airfields which deliniate the front lines between sides. These could be launching points for tanks, halftracks etc, as well as providing spotting of High AND Low flying enemy aircraft. Unlike the current system of undefended vehicle bases, they would not be located in tactically moronic positions in canyons etc, but rather would be placed on high ground where they could dominate approaching enemy ground vehicles.

A system like this would also give the Tankheads something concrete to do besides raiding airfields. It would also reduce their driving time.

Giving the coastal airfields shore batteries was a good first step for a system like this.

Cheers Buzzbait

DmdNexus · « **Reply #24 on:** May 27, 2001, 02:44:00 PM »

I would agree with turning off the BARDAR if they added "Base # is under attack" broadcasts when the attackers got with in visual range of the field (<6k)

This way the attacker's can still achieve initial surprise, but can't totally wipe out a base with out any one knowing it's happening.

btw 1 lancaster with 14 1k bombs can still totaly destroy a base - even with the new base layouts - just can't be done in 1 pass.

Otherwise, keep BARDAR on for gameplay.

Nexus

osage · « **Reply #25 on:** May 28, 2001, 12:26:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DmdNexus:
btw 1 lancaster with 14 1k bombs can still totaly destroy a base - even with the new base layouts - just can't be done in 1 pass.Nexus

Not a chance. For a small field:

3 FH X 3K = 9K
1 VH X 3K = 3K
2 BH X 4K = 8K
Total = 20K

Minimum of 3 passes (2 passes to get FHs and VH). 3 more passes to take out ack.

I agree that something needed to be done about being able to take out the FHs and VH in one pass and all hangars in two. That was terrible for gameplay.

As it now stands the smartest way of taking out a base is sending in 3 or 4 JABOs to down VH and ack and then vulch the hell out of the field until a goon or M3 rumbles in. Fun as hell and great for racking up those vulch kills.

Not particularly realistic, but as someone once wisely pointed out, the only real thing in AH is your $30.

Now it seems that buffs are only suitable for coordinated precision raids on large fields, or strategic stuff like Cities, factories, and HQs. Perhaps this is how it should be, even though I'm kinda sad to see the tactical relevance of the big bombers reduced so much.

Bomber dweebs now have to use coordination and teamwork to be of relevance, which is a great thing and definitely adds to the realism.

It's pretty tough have a large buff raid succeed when a big green dar pretty much gives away your intentions as soon as you're on the runway.

Unless you have at least 1 (disciplined) escort for each buff.

Clearly, 1.07 marks a return to AH's core capability: as a fighter sim, first and foremost.

Osage

darling · « **Reply #26 on:** May 28, 2001, 02:50:00 AM »

Osage, I agree with you in many parts. I did find a discrepancy in your lbs need for the Hangars. I have as of yet not encountered a BH that needs 4k. None the less, your argument stands. 18k is still out of reach for the Lancaster. It's max is 14k, as we all know.

I just wanted to point that out.

As of yet, we have had some very good points to both sides.

2Late4U said:

Quote

Problem is that without bar-dar, all it takes is a few people with nothing to do for an hour to shut down your country for hours on end BOY THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN!

If that is a problem I might have to face, however unlikely I find it, I will, for the option of being able to conduct NOE raids in at least some semblance of realism.

I like the idea of an air-raid siren type of system. Eagler's version with dar detection at a preset range (10 miles or so) also seems viable, since it might simulate eyeball spotting, like he points out in a later post.

The system lasse suggests (having complete dar bars in twr) would not serve the purpose, I believe. At any given time, I would estimate up to 10% of the players are in the tower, and would be able to warn the flying players of the imminent danger.

Keep the comments coming. Good discussion so far.

I regret the comment about the B29, and hope people can avoid commenting singularly on that. I realize that we all have planes that we would like to see. I for one would dearly like to see early-war versions of the spits and zeroes, along with Mosqitoes, Warhawks and the rest. But that topic has been beaten to death, often and hard, and HTC seems to be working on it, i.e. the newly arriced P47-D11.

------------------
2nd Lt. Hogni "Darling" Gylfason
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
143rd Pursuit Wing

[This message has been edited by darling (edited 05-28-2001).]

Fastbikkel · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2001, 04:43:00 AM »

Osage : Not a chance. For a small field:

3 FH X 3K = 9K
1 VH X 3K = 3K
2 BH X 4K = 8K
Total = 20K

I thought a FH needed only 2 x 1k and a bh 3 x 1k????

Greetings,

JG5FaBi.

kfsone · « **Reply #28 on:** May 28, 2001, 04:49:00 AM »

Both FH, BH and VH need 2.5k of bombs.

osage · « **Reply #29 on:** May 28, 2001, 10:00:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fastbikkel:
I thought a FH needed only 2 x 1k and a bh 3 x 1k????

Greetings,

JG5FaBi.

I always thought at least 3k for any sort of hangars.

I am a dumb bellybutton squeak.

I promise to do better next tour.

Osage.

P.S. Dang Dang dang Dang