Author Topic: What rights have we lost as U.S. citizens? (Read 5791 times)

GtoRA2 · « **on:** March 15, 2004, 02:50:01 PM »

Guys
I keep hearing this; hear on this board and in real conversations. I just do not see it.

I am truly curious what some of you think we have lost. Please let’s try and keep this adult and flame free, if you can not post why you think you have lost a right, and back it up with a reasonable argument and links or info keep it to yourself. We are all adults we should be able to discuss this without flaming each other.

What rights have we lost?

I know this admin locked up a U.S. citizen with Jose Padilla, The Supreme Court ruled he needs to be tried, I have not heard if he has yet or is in the process. I am not sure this counts as a lost right though. He was being held using some obscure rules, right or wrong, WE the rest of the people could not be held as enemy combatants.

What else?

I am no pro Bush right winger nor a Pro Kerrie left winger, I do not like either, so don’t come back with the Lefty/righty BS.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2004, 02:53:55 PM »

I've already said my piece, and you'll find my point here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111534&pagenumber=3
-SW

Eagler · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2004, 02:55:59 PM »

for a law abiding one - none

Westy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2004, 02:57:08 PM »

Yeah. And we all know US "law enforcement" agents don't make mistakes!

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2004, 02:57:09 PM »

AKSWulfe
It would be better if you posted what you felt we are losing here, and posted some links to back it up. It is a pain in the bellybutton for people to have to jump to another thread.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2004, 02:57:51 PM »

Guys
Please if lets act like adults here.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:05:13 PM »

The only link that needs to be provided is the one outlining the Patriot Act and what it does. Right there you will see exactly what I'm talking about with regards to seizure of internet logs, wire tapping, and business transactions.

I also know that if you purchase, or want to purchase, simple rocket motors - you need a license or something like that saying that you are allowed to have them and you need to register with the ATF.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/07/tech/main543123.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/09/national/09ROCK.html?ex=1079499600&en=9442f29380a70fcb&ei=5070

There will always be people who will state "it doesn't effect me now, so it doesn't matter" right up until the point it does effect them. At that point, well they're screwed.
-SW

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:14:43 PM »

AKSWulfe
I am not saying that. I want to see what people are talking about. I have not SEEN it is not the same as it is not happening.

Are you sure about the rocket motors? I see them for sale all over lol.

I read through it. Thanks for the links.

Martlet · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:15:02 PM »

You're right. We shouldn't do background checks on people buying things that felons aren't allowed to own.

In fact, we should get rid of background checks on weapons purchasers too.

That being said, you haven't answered his question. He asked what rights you've lost. I'm anxious for a reply.

Sixpence · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:28:36 PM »

I'm not sure what rights you may have lost, but you lost alot of privacy. If it is the way I think it is, they do not need to ask a judge to tap your phone or go through all your business records. If they are going to do that they better have a good reason that a judge agrees with. Seems like a good tool to use against political foes, they never know you're there and there is no paper trail. Somewhere Nixon is laughing.

DoctorYO · « **Reply #10 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:28:51 PM »

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/pubs/descriptions/loss_report.pdf

Granted its a .pdf but its 77 pages and pretty complete...

I dont agree with every word from this report but the large majority of it is sound... I like the chapter on govt transparency...

Give it a read.. pretty much sums it up in 77 pages...

Note thats the 2003 edition..

2 cents..

DoctorYO

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:44:56 PM »

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/002328.html
-SW

weaselsan · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:46:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
The only link that needs to be provided is the one outlining the Patriot Act and what it does. Right there you will see exactly what I'm talking about with regards to seizure of internet logs, wire tapping, and business transactions.

I also know that if you purchase, or want to purchase, simple rocket motors - you need a license or something like that saying that you are allowed to have them and you need to register with the ATF.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/07/tech/main543123.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/09/national/09ROCK.html?ex=1079499600&en=9442f29380a70fcb&ei=5070

There will always be people who will state "it doesn't effect me now, so it doesn't matter" right up until the point it does effect them. At that point, well they're screwed.
-SW

Holy chit.......It's gittin harder and harder for felons and terrorists to buy explosives....next thing ya know these right wing kooks will want gun control.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:54:24 PM »

Only read what you want to, thats fine. Maybe I should bold the part I was pointing out, just in case you didn't get past the second paragraph.

Under the proposed rules, the government will also inspect the areas where permit holders store explosives at least once every three years.

So, if you want to compare it to firearms- I guess you don't mind the ATF stopping by every once and a while to check on the storage of your weapons?

Did you know gasoline is explosive? There are also several household chemicals that can be combined for a larger explosion than the rocket motors could ever produce.

You won't mind if Uncle Sam searches your premises to ensure the proper storage of your motor vehicle? Lawn mower? Generator? Weed whacker? Snow blower? Cleaning chemicals in your kitchen? Your liqour cabinet? Those terrorists may make molitov cocktails, better look out.
-SW

Yeager · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2004, 03:57:04 PM »

I havent lost any rights. Some of these femguys crapping their panties about the patriot act are paranoid seedless balls of cotton. all fluff and no substance.

If it takes a trap to catch a terrorist, american or not, set the damned trap already and then send the bastidges down to the Git and throw away the key. fediddleing sub-human rights fembots would cut of their faces to spite their noses. Dorks!