What rights have we lost as U.S. citizens?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You have immense troubles with comprehension, no one can help you.
-SW

Certainly, you must realize that only guilty people are arrested (or even investigated) in this country.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Interesting you should say that Martlet, I was wondering the same thing about you 2 pages back.
-SW

[Pei]

This is actually quite interesting Martlet.

You don't trust people in power to be good and incapable of making mistakes but you also believe that people in power will only use that power against people who deserve it?

Let me ask you another question: are you a politician?

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Interesting you should say that Martlet, I was wondering the same thing about you 2 pages back.
-SW

I'm just waiting for an answer to Gt's post, since I'm interested.  

Thanks for playing, though, I'll get back to you when I see you post an example.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Pei
This is actually quite interesting Martlet.

You don't trust people in power to be good and incapable of making mistakes but you also believe that people in power will only use that power against people who deserve it?

Let me ask you another question: are you a politician?

Pei, if you'll look back through the comments, you'll see I've already answered your question.  If you can't find it, I'll email it to you, but I don't care to post it in this thread again.  It's already full of redundancy.

No, I'm not a politician, why?

[Stoned Gecko]

You still haven't answered my question, Marlet. What do you define as "losing a right"?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Thats what I thought. I posted two examples on the first page, Amendments to the Constitution in case you are having problems with where they came from, and I offered several examples as to why they could be over-ridden thanks to the Patriot Act. Sandman even offered back up to it.

You covered your eyes, and plugged your ears. You're the typical complacent lap dog for any government. Thank YOU for playing, but you lost.
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Stoned Gecko
You still haven't answered my question, Marlet. What do you define as "losing a right"?

I'm sorry Gecko, I must have missed it amongst the garbage.

I suppose it would be when in due course you are actually denied something.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Thats what I thought. I posted two examples on the first page, Amendments to the Constitution in case you are having problems with where they came from, and I offered several examples as to why they could be over-ridden thanks to the Patriot Act. Sandman even offered back up to it.

You covered your eyes, and plugged your ears. You're the typical complacent lap dog for any government. Thank YOU for playing, but you lost.
-SW

Here is the key flaw in your argument, which has been my point all along:

examples as to why they could be over-ridden thanks to the Patriot Act.

When have any of those examples that "could be over-ridden" ever been over-ridden and applied to you?

That was what Gt asked.  What rights have we lost.  Not what "could be over-ridden".

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

GTO offered someone completely different that lost his rights to a fair and speedy trial than I did, those are two examples of American Citizens losing their rights.

It isn't about me as an individual or you as an individual losing our rights, if you believe that is all that matters - well there are pockets in history where you would have fit right in.

When an individual loses his rights, it has a domino effect on all individuals. You may only stand up for yourself and only your rights because thats all you care about, and has been something I've reiterated dozens of times that as an individual you have NO rights to the government in power because they can restrict your individual rights so long as you don't have the majority, or close to it, on your side.

Its not about what rights are restricted to individuals, if you are so narrow minded to believe that is the case - then you truly deserve a restrictive government that only gives you basic rights you can take - its about the rights of the populace. Afterall, they are supposed to be the ones in charge of this country. For the people by the people, ring a bell?
-SW

[Stoned Gecko]

Originally posted by Martlet
I'm sorry Gecko, I must have missed it amongst the garbage.

I suppose it would be when in due course you are actually denied something.

So let's apply that to the right to bear arms. In this case just a simple ownership. If the government passes the law banning all firearms, does that mean that I don't lose the right to bear arms unless I actually own a firearm?

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Stoned Gecko
So let's apply that to the right to bear arms. In this case just a simple ownership. If the government passes the law banning all firearms, does that mean that I don't lose the right to bear arms unless I actually own a firearm?

No, because you can't own a fire arm if they are illegal.   This is the whole problem with this argument.  It's a "what if" argument.  I'm not asking for examples of what "could" happen.  I'm asking for an example of what HAS happened to YOU.

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
GTO offered someone completely different that lost his rights to a fair and speedy trial than I did, those are two examples of American Citizens losing their rights.

It isn't about me as an individual or you as an individual losing our rights, if you believe that is all that matters - well there are pockets in history where you would have fit right in.

When an individual loses his rights, it has a domino effect on all individuals. You may only stand up for yourself and only your rights because thats all you care about, and has been something I've reiterated dozens of times that as an individual you have NO rights to the government in power because they can restrict your individual rights so long as you don't have the majority, or close to it, on your side.

Its not about what rights are restricted to individuals, if you are so narrow minded to believe that is the case - then you truly deserve a restrictive government that only gives you basic rights you can take - its about the rights of the populace. Afterall, they are supposed to be the ones in charge of this country. For the people by the people, ring a bell?
-SW

I'm not really concerned with what happens to folks that have renounced their allegiance to the US and declared war on it.   Again, I've asked what RIGHT have YOU lost.

C'mon, it's a simple concept to grasp.  Either you've lost one, and you are extremely ticked about it, as I would be, or you haven't.  If you HAVE, then it should be fairly easy to slap it down here.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

I've said it... three times by now... and everytime its met with meatheadedness.

Paper is white, and has blue lines. If you eat glue, it makes bad poo. Pizza is good and so is soda. If you disagree with Bush, you should be killed by a lush and turned into mush.

Take the last word, don't care anymore... worthless to argue with a stupifying intellect such as you. Enjoy the last word.
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I've said it... three times by now... and everytime its met with meatheadedness.

Paper is white, and has blue lines. If you eat glue, it makes bad poo. Pizza is good and so is soda. If you disagree with Bush, you should be killed by a lush and turned into mush.

Take the last word, don't care anymore... worthless to argue with a stupifying intellect such as you. Enjoy the last word.
-SW

I'm still waiting for ANY word from you.  Besides the Ad Homs, of course.  It's all you could come up with.

[Stoned Gecko]

Originally posted by Martlet
No, because you can't own a fire arm if they are illegal.   This is the whole problem with this argument.  It's a "what if" argument.  I'm not asking for examples of what "could" happen.  I'm asking for an example of what HAS happened to YOU.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Your argument is valid if the right didn't exist from the start. If the firearms were illegal from the day US was formed, then you're right ... I cannot lose the right to bear arms because they were not allowed in the first place.

Right now I have a right to own a firearm. If tomorrow a law banning guns is enacted, I will no longer have that right. I will no longer have an option to purchase one. I had that right before, and now I don't.

I guess my definition of a "lost right" is a right that you had before, and now no longer have. After all that's the definition of the word "lost", right?

Now, your question would be "how the loss of that right affected you?" Well, as far as the Patriot Act goes, it hasn't affected me. Am I concerned that it might? Not really. I do my best to stay out of trouble. Any other right ... well ... that depends on what that right is.