Author Topic: WTG Israel  (Read 14359 times)

Offline moose

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« Reply #165 on: March 23, 2004, 10:22:45 AM »
I dont give a rats bellybutton what Isreal does, but let her buy her weapons from someone else.

I'm tired of the US being blamed for all the stuff we dont do. We already screw up enough ourselves.
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #166 on: March 23, 2004, 10:33:42 AM »
Habu

Do you think killing the leaders will stop the suicide bombings?

Offline Torque

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« Reply #167 on: March 23, 2004, 10:35:52 AM »
The most intelligent Moose evar.:D

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #168 on: March 23, 2004, 10:36:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Perhaps with the exception of the Native Americans.


I am an American of mixed heritage; some European and some being Pima Indian, a tribe that hails from the area now called Arizona.  My views are not horribly popular among some of the more outspoken of the tribe but it seems that the American Indian has not suffered more than other peoples who have had history wash over them.  

The Celtic tribes of Scotland, Wales and Ireland were stomped by the English in the British Isles to the point where their religion and language was displaced, and their culture was replaced by that of the rulers of England. While some of the more colorful ceremonial rituals have been maintained, the difference among English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish are undoubtably less than when the Celtic tribes were untouched.

Romans stomped on the English and brought their customs and religion to those who inhabited the land south of Hadrian’s Wall.  These people also had their culture changed, their women raped, their warriors killed, their existence fundamentally changed.  As the legions spread the empire, disease followed and those who had no natural immunity suffered. National policy of Rome was to irradicate threats to the empire.

While I thank those Europeans who still show concern for American Indians, (at term which I personally prefer to Native American) there are more American Indians alive today than at the time of Lewis and Clark.  

The biggest problem facing the American Indian today, a problem which I believe to be the foundation for the majority of our problems such as poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, etc. is the condescending nanny attitude of the government that needs to take care of the Indian population.  

The welfare state in which many Indians still live condemns us to poverty and crime the same way that feeding bears causes that noble creature to live at the dump and raid campgrounds in the National Parks instead of dining on Elk in a mountain paradise as they were intended.  These bears are relocated, and if they return are killed, much they same way we deal with a human criminal.

While I thank those who have American Indian welfare foremost in their hearts, it is time for us to stand on our own and stop feeling sorry for ourselves and have others stop feeling sorry for us.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2004, 10:39:05 AM by Holden McGroin »
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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #169 on: March 23, 2004, 10:53:33 AM »
I bet if there is ever a palistinian state, the Palistinian terrorists will still attack Isreal.

They will in effect force isreal to attack them by their actions. Now that is just my opinion, but If they get their state watch it happen.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #170 on: March 23, 2004, 11:17:03 AM »
Quote
I bet if there is ever a palistinian state, the Palistinian terrorists will still attack Isreal.

They will in effect force isreal to attack them by their actions. Now that is just my opinion, but If they get their state watch it happen.


And if that were the case, I doubt there would be many who paid much attention to what Israel did in return.

It's too bad those hecters of land on the West bank are such a flash point. You could really see Israel potentially becoming a regional economic powerhouse and certainly an international player in more areas if it was generally at peace. No more need for the handouts either.

Good labor/manufacturing opportunites for the palestinians too while they build their state. I think Israel now uses Egypt and Jordan as its regional manufacturing partners.

Charon

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #171 on: March 23, 2004, 11:39:18 AM »
Charon
 I hope they get the chance to have a state, and I hope as a people they will be mature enough to go with it and become prosperous. I would hope they would stop letting the other arab nations use them to attack isreal. I would hope they will take it on themselves to prosper and stop blaming isreal.

 I do not think they will, if they get that chance. I think group like hamas and the PLO will keep the attacks on isreal going.

I think when Isreal hits back the UN will go after isreal and not the new Palistine.

I am not sure Isreal will give them that state any time soon though. But they should because it would be vindication, though I am sure some will stilll always find ways to blame them.

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #172 on: March 23, 2004, 12:17:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
Well damn, chalk up another dead bad guy and another victory for the ole Hellfire missiles.

Hamas declaring war on us?  Oh please, sometimes you have to wonder what a few thermonuclear detonations would due for that region of the world.


er kill a lot of Jewish people?

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #173 on: March 23, 2004, 12:59:07 PM »
moose

do you think ANYTHING the US could do would prevent another terrorist attack on her?

anything - from removing all support from Israel to giving Hamas weapons, heck give them a couple of nukes

do you think all of a sudden terrorists around the world would be our best buddies? or do you think we would still be attacked for who and what we are and what we stand for.

who said it is not wise to feed the lion as the lion will just eat you last ...

not supporting Israel would be a huge mistake.
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Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #174 on: March 23, 2004, 01:14:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
Habu

Do you think killing the leaders will stop the suicide bombings?


No. Nothing will stop the suicide bombers. They are insane and they seek the destruction of Israel. There is no peace with those people. They will not stop until the Israeli state is eradicated...I doubt they will stop then even, they will probably just find a new target.

What it does do however, is that it makes the sucicide bombings less planned, less thought through, with poorer equipment, it lessens the body count.

No one can stop all angry guys strapping on a bombs, looking for a target. Those attacks generally are very ineffective though. Often the only KIA will be the attacker himself, at other times some security guard will be able to stop him. It is very rare that these improvised attacks lead to any large body counts.  

The worst case sucicide bombings involve several bombers hitting the same target at various intervals. Like the Bali bomb, but with suicide bombers. (In Bali, a smaller bomb inside the location caused a panic and led everyone to flee towards the exit where a larger bomb was detonated a short while after the first one).

There have been some attacks inside Israel with multiple bombers striking the same target. Generally these attacks have been the worst attacks in terms of fatalities. Some other attacks have been very well planned, leading to the bomber being able to penetrate into a location or striking an unexpected target.

Target killings of terrorist leaders removes alot of the ability to plan these things. This combined with the attacks on the infrastructure (funding, bomb-factories) are the only viable way to combat these terrorists.

Unless you are a naive fool that thinks that you can sit down and negotiate some sort of peace with the arabs that is.  



Now you whine alot about how this will cause more attacks. Sure there will be more attacks, but its not as if there would have been no attacks if the Israelis had not taken out that guy.

The Israelis have been hitting Hamas very hard in the latest week...not that you or GS or any other pal supporter would know it.  During the past week, five Israeli raids have pounded the Hamas ranks; in Nuseyrat, al Bureij, twice in Rafah and once in Abasan. These operations have resulted in 70 dead Hamas operatives. More importantly, these attacks have been targeting  
the mid-level leadership of Hamas.

Before that, On March 14, the suicide bombing of Israel’s Mediterranean Ashdod Port that killed 10 Israelis was perceived by Hamas as a fiasco. Most probably that attack had been the result of months of intelligence work, complex pre-planning and heavy funding. The design was to strike at a hazardous materials site in the harbor, something that would have caused hundreds or even thousands of casualties. More importantly , the Hamas blew their suprise factor for a failed attack. Now, that route to cross into Israel is closed.

Right now, thanks to last weeks attacks, Hamas lacks the capability to strike outside the Gaza strip.

So you will see alot of gnashing of teeth, lots of bold words and lots of whining among western terrorist sympathisers like you and GS and thrawn and moose... meanwhile Israel is a bit safer.

Personally I think the Israelis have decided to remove the Palestinian leadership. Cut off the head, and the rest is just a (very angry) flock of frustration.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2004, 01:22:10 PM by Hortlund »

Offline maslo

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« Reply #175 on: March 23, 2004, 01:24:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
Yes Eagler, to many people hate jews and to many hate muslims....Lets leave it there, at something we can agree on.


hate some race or ethnic w/o owen experience is nice example of beeing brainwashed
No matter who do you hate.

Offline maslo

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« Reply #176 on: March 23, 2004, 01:28:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
Ok moose so humour me here.



So what is your solution? Negotiations will not end anything. Appeasement will not end anything.


Why ... because Israel is to cool ??

Why do you consider those statments to be true ?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #177 on: March 23, 2004, 01:28:15 PM »
Are you then saying it is ok to hate a whole race because of "experience?" :eek:

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #178 on: March 23, 2004, 01:30:40 PM »
Btw, two more points:

1) Israelis have issued a statement saying "no one is immune". The message is pretty clear...Arafat might very well be next.

2) Hamas has turned to Al Acqsa Martyrs Brigades in the west bank and Hezbollah in Lebanon and Al Quaeda for help in avenging the death of that guy.

Clearly Hamas has been severely weakened by the Israeli offensive.

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #179 on: March 23, 2004, 01:32:09 PM »
Dont think so Hortlund, there are plenty of guys ready to step up and fill the void after Yassin. Im not even sure if he is the brain behind the planning/details of the attacks...he was a spiritual leader wasnt he?