Author Topic: Coral Sea  (Read 6458 times)

Offline artik

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« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2004, 10:20:53 PM »
Gear you can talk a lot about swastika and it was used before Nazi Party.......

But the swastika you show is Nazi Swastika

So don't tell me all this b.... sh...... about the simbol.

Don't try to use you freedoms to tell I do what I want.

In lots of other countries it is just illegal.

If you will continue to use it I'm not sure you will get a lot of help on this forum (that is not first thread on this topic).

All the smilies you add don't change the swastikaand its meanings.

So if you do not understand what does it mean....... I can tell you very poor man.
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline gear

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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2004, 10:24:45 PM »
Well it's not here and due to my native american heritage I'll use it if I want.Itdoes not meen that I agree what the nazis did,nor does it meen that I'm a nazi.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2004, 10:54:52 PM by gear »

Offline gear

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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2004, 10:53:06 PM »
Arlow your too much:rofl

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2004, 11:58:17 PM »
Artic, you need to stop fighting over a symble unless it is being used to represent hatred. Using it in the game does not mean hatred unless so stated by the person using it.

Isreal is God's chosen country. Be Damned any whom goes against it!

Offline AdmRose

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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2004, 01:01:55 AM »
I personally see nothing wrong with its use in a display context and once again feel that my belief in people's adherence to political correctness as been reaffirmed.

Offline Dogsta04

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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2004, 01:29:50 AM »
1st! carrier war oooh yeah! sounds great gear.
2nd personaly think it's bad taste to show a symbol that has become so powerful a sign of hatred and inhumanity. reguardless of it's "true" meaning, or intention. there will be people who will argue to there death that you are propogating hatred, there will be others who will defend your "right" to use it and show it. But that is neither here nor there, you say it is not a nazi symbol, fine it's not, but you placed it there in hopes that people would flame you about it, in order to begin an argument. and that my friend is weak.
just my $.02 CDN

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2004, 08:30:06 AM »
Cool idea.  

Did the Indians have a little eagle in the middle of their swastikas like you do in your avatar?

Offline Soulyss

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« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2004, 01:43:47 PM »
The problem with the carrier battles in the CT is sustainability.  W/out  land bases how do you keep the fight going and keep it interesting.  If the Cv's are sinkable you run the problem of one side being knocked out of the fight, result everyone logs unless the CM staff monitors the arena very closely.  If you make the cv's too difficult to sink you eliminate the use of strike aircraft.  Which results in a 24 hour furball which may sound appealing to some will turn others off, result low #'s.    These issues make using  maps like Midway very difficult in an unsupervised enviorment like the CT.  I think the coral sea maps has similar problems but honestly I'd have to go look at it again.   I for one would love to see more cv's in the CT but some of the basic problems with their use have to be solved first I think.
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Offline Reschke

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« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2004, 02:10:51 PM »
The subject of carrier battles in the CT has been a long time idea in my mind and we have thrown it around some in the CT Dev Group forum and the CT Staff forum as well. We may be able to make something work but we don't know till we really try and build the terrain.

Essentially we have to leave the CV Task Groups to spawn in the same places each time with the ports far off the visible map.
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Offline Batz

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« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2004, 02:57:05 PM »
There is a Coral Sea map. But it would suck, suiciders would sink the CVs and you would be left with long flight times.

Even if you tweak it where the cvs spawn closer to each other they cant be too close or they will just get suicided right after they spawn. Folks complain that the Okinawa CVs spawn to far away and they spawn with in 2 ½ sectors of Naha.

Folks would complain about the ack, the Japanese would have but a Kate and Val vs. the TBM and SBD. IMO it would be a complete waste of time.

There’s lots of "cool" set ups that you folks can come up with but unless you consider the nature of the players then you are kidding yourself if you think the "idea" itself will mean it will be fun.

A good number of CT'rs aren’t into anything more then building battling. The CVs would be the magnet for even more of these types of players.

Without substantial land bases in close proximity the fun factor will drop off as soon as the CV sinks. It takes 12 min per Keypad Square, 36 min for a CV to cross a sector.

There is just too much downtime. If you make the CV extremely tough it would pointless. They would turn into unsinkable islands, if you make the ack more deadly folks would just hide in it.

So it may sound "cool" in reality it would be quite different.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2004, 02:59:40 PM by Batz »

Offline Reschke

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« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2004, 04:06:15 PM »
Yeah you hit it dead on there Batz. The idea that I have been working off of is similar to the NDisles map without all the outlying bases/islands. I just don't have the free time to diddle around with the TE to get what I want to try as a map.
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Offline Grits

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« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2004, 05:30:50 PM »
I like the Coral Sea idea, but I think for the reasons Batz said, the Slot map is the only practical way to have '42 PAC setups because of the need for land bases.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2004, 05:47:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz

Even if you tweak it where the cvs spawn closer to each other they cant be too close or they will just get suicided right after they spawn. Folks complain that the Okinawa CVs spawn to far away and they spawn with in 2 ½ sectors of Naha.

Folks would complain about the ack, the Japanese would have but a Kate and Val vs. the TBM and SBD. IMO it would be a complete waste of time.

Without substantial land bases in close proximity the fun factor will drop off as soon as the CV sinks. It takes 12 min per Keypad Square, 36 min for a CV to cross a sector.

There is just too much downtime. If you make the CV extremely tough it would pointless. They would turn into unsinkable islands, if you make the ack more deadly folks would just hide in it.


I'm not gonna say that you're wrong but there are options as well as different povs to consider:

On planeset disparity

Each side will have it's strengths and weaknesses. The Japanese planset will actually be better at fleet defense while the U.S. planes will be somewhat better at attacking fleets (somewhat).

On fleet ack

Doesn't it have a setting like all ack? Fleets can be custom designed to be heavily or lightly escorted as well.

On distance

Two or even three sectors isn't too bad when opponents are actually flying towards one another .... and when fleets are actually sailing toward one another.

On land bases ... and on capping fleet spawnpoints

The current Coral Sea map has all land bases "off the map" (so to speak). We could make some sacrifice in historical accuracy by having the bases AT the fleet spawnpoints to protect them as they spawn. Make the bases tough as hell.

On past experiences vs. new ideas

Like I said .... maybe it would suck no matter what we try ... but we haven't tried everything yet.

Offline Batz

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« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2004, 06:40:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
I'm not gonna say that you're wrong but there are options as well as different povs to consider:

On planeset disparity

Each side will have it's strengths and weaknesses. The Japanese planset will actually be better at fleet defense while the U.S. planes will be somewhat better at attacking fleets (somewhat).


Well in this case it would give one side a much greater advantage in sinking the other sides CV. Lets face it the Japanese will be out numbered and if this is the case defense only matters when each persons is concerned with dieing. If not several suiciders dashing buy to suicide the CV there’s no way to stop it. You see this in the main all the time. Now you have situation where 1 sides CV is continuously knocked out. This will cause some just to say F'it and not fly at all.

Then add in the US attack planes are faster and way better armed. Would you rather chase down a TBM is an A6M2 or a Kate in an F4F? There would very few on the Japanese side who would even bother flying the Kate or Val

Quote
On fleet ack

Doesn't it have a setting like all ack? Fleets can be custom designed to be heavily or lightly escorted as well.[/b]


My point about ack is that the CVs are easy to suicide. There's 2 ways to deal with this.

1. Increase CV hardness - This hurts the Japanese side because they will have fewer players and their attack planes are slow and for the most part unarmed. Increasing CV hardness will almost make the US CVs unkillable.

2. Increase the ack - Suiciders wont care about ack, after all they are suiciders. But ack will be used as shield and folks hiding in it rather fighting it out.

Quote
On distance

Two or even three sectors isn't too bad when opponents are actually flying towards one another .... and when fleets are actually sailing toward one another.


Are you kidding me? Do I need to quote your very own complaints about the Okinawa fleet spawns being in BFE? Folks complained then what would be different this time?

Quote
On land bases ... and on capping fleet spawnpoints

The current Coral Sea map has all land bases "off the map" (so to speak). We could make some sacrifice in historical accuracy by having the bases AT the fleet spawnpoints to protect them as they spawn. Make the bases tough as hell.


You could make it work as long as a CM is on hand to monitor game play. He would need to jump the fleets, reduce CV rebuild time etc... But how much fun would it be compared to just running Okinawa? Or the Slot? Or even the Midway event map?

Quote
On past experiences vs. new ideas

Like I said .... maybe it would suck no matter what we try ... but we haven't tried everything yet.


Well first its not much of a "new Idea", more like "re-hashing an old one". Like killshooter.

This map has been around for years. The one thing that completely unbalances a set up like this is how do deal with those who would suicide rather then fight? I haven't heard any "new ideas" on how to adjust to that fact. You could try it and hope it doesn’t turn out like my "glass half empty" prediction.

Offline Soulyss

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« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2004, 06:44:31 PM »
That's the coral sea terrain?!?!??! damn I had a different one in my mind.
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