Flight Model

[CRASH]

I love AH and I certainly apreciate all the work that went into this new release, but can we please have the more realistic flight model again.  I always thought this game was built on having the most accurate flight model out there.  I think it's beginning to move away from that with the dumbed down torque effect and who knows what else for the sake of game play and accomodating the new guys.  For me, flight model is everything.

CRASH

[hitech]

CRASH
I am ready to explode.

The 1.03 model you are referring to was way off in drags.

It wasn't coming close to hitting the numbers in drag. Pyro and I spent huge volume of hours doing specifically what YOU want. Making the model's as accurate as we possibly can.

We do not change performance numbers just for play reasons. We do NOT simply dumb down planes. We do our very best, with ALL the tools we have available to make every aspect of the models come  as close to the real thing as we can.

This idea people have that they think the model is porked with nothing but there perception as a basis,is just full of BS, and really starting to piss me off.

You don't want realism in a flight model you want it to be Hard just for the sake of being hard.

Now as to if the torque is off or not on the F4 , CRASH you really don't know if it is.
How much research have you done to figure out the exact forces and rates on and F4?

There are pieces of what you call torque I know are very close to  real performance BTW did you know real eng torque more than doubled on most planes in 1.04? The yaw effect you are referring to is mostly do to slip stream effects. They might not be spot on but they are very close. I've already spent lots of hours researching ways to better simulate this effect. It will most probably change in the future but to gain more accuracy in that area is not a simple thing and there are lots of bigger fish in the pan at this moment.
 

In not saying our model is always 100% accurate. But I can assure you when it comes to the flight dynamics of the planes we strive to get them as accurate as we can and make it happen in the time allotted.

So please stop call us liars because i'm really getting sick of it.

What it basicly comes down to is there definatly  are spefic problems with some planes, but you loose all creditiblity when you don't start from fact's, make sweeping statements like the MORE Acurate model of 1.03, That we dumb down flight models excetera.

HiTech
______________
ran't mode off.

[Voss]

Like realism? Here's a plan...

Kissimee you probably know about. Chino, Calif. has a ACM/BFM combat program for $5-8000. The program includes dual time in a jet fighter, BUT they also allow trade-offs for time in a P-40, P-47, F-4U and I think a Mustang (might be an F6F; lost the brochure actually).

There are TONS of fantasy vacations out there like this. BUT, there are literally thousands of restoration projects around the world and very few technicians able to work on them all! So, find a local Aviation Academy and get your A&P Technicians certificate. This will allow you to work at any airport ANYWHERE! Then, you can work for a fair wage! After a few years you can just about name your own salary toward restoration work (for independents), or just throw caution to the wind and volunteer your time for a museum.

You should be aware, though, that museums' seldom let tech's fly their restorations.

A&P Tech training goes for about $16k, takes about 15-18 months, and there are grants and loans available. BTW, the curriculum in this type of training is FAR more intensive then any pilot training out there. You will LITERALLY know more about every aspect of aircraft then any pilot ever thought of knowing.

Think you're upset about flight models now? Just wait... heh

Here's a few links:
 http://www2.okstate.edu/aviation/ttcprog1.html
 http://imagine.slu.edu/parks/airframe_technician.html
 http://www.tcjc.cc.tx.us/campus_nw/aero/aerohtml/aerofaq.htm

Voss

[Voss]

Well, I tried to get that in before HT replied!  

My point is, if you are really upset about something these guys have worked so hard on, you need a vacation!  

Voss

[Furious]

HiTech,

you wanna trade handles with me?  


keep up the fantastic work, I am having a ball.

Furious

[RAM]

I have to agree that the drag modelling is now more accurate, by far, than in 1.03

I resist, tho, to think that the torque model is right. Sorry but I cant believe it. we all have a 27-loop after take off film from a niki with relative unnapreciable effects whatsoever on the top of the loop atthe lowest speed imaginable.

a 2000 hp engine with a big propeller as the N1K2, the F4U1 or the Typhoon, can't make so few effect. I think the 1.03 WAS more accurate on the torque modelling.

[RedBrn]

Crash..   It's a game!!!! Hello!!
There is NOTHING, .. NOTHING out there that comes close to what htc has given us.. I just don't get why you can sit here and nitpick about flight models on a computer game.... I'm willing to trust that hitech and Pyro have done their research. That's what they get paid to do.. I'm not for "brown nosing" lol..... but man.. this is by far the best world war 2 ANYTHING out there. At least for me it is.. I love it!!!
Keep up the great work hitech and Pyro  
In this world you'll never please everyone.

[54Ed]

Here is a suggested policy:

Anyone who wants to comment on the flight model must first be able to explain the differences between Torque, P-factor, Slipstream, and Gyroscopic Precession.  They must describe the physics behind each force, how it is applied to the airplane, and how the pilot feels it and counteracts it at slow airspeeds.

If a pilot cannot describe those forces, he is not yet educated enough in aerodynamics to comment on the realism of the flight model.  Those who are unqualified are free to post comments, and HiTech is free to ignore them.

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by 54Ed:
differences between Torque, P-factor, Slipstream, and Gyroscopic Precession.  

Torque: A canadian F4U-1C pilot that is damn good and flies AH.

P-factor: How much you can push someone before you piss them off.

Slipstream: Happens when you are out trout fishing and you step on a slippery rock.

Gyroscopic Precession: Something you see on acid.

Good enuff, now can I complain about something? :-)
-SW

[SKurj]

Is Aces High the game for you?

If you don't like the FM of Aces High then obviously its not the sim for you.  I suggest you continue your search until you find what your perception of the correct FM is...

I'll stay here cuz I like it +)

AKskurj

[CptTrips]

>I resist, tho, to think that the torque
>model is right. Sorry but I cant believe
>it.


RAM,

Could be.  There is always the possibility that they had errors in their source data or that their mathematical equations.  

Please share with us your data and calculations that prove their model is inaccurate.  HT and Pyro would be the first to thank you for any USEFUL data you could provide.

Not your "gut feelings".

Not your "intuition".

Not undocumented common knowledge.

Not WWII Urban Legends.

Not telepathically channeling Kurt Tank's spirit.


Your vague "well that's not the way I always imagined it would feel..." anecdotes are irrelevant.


Regards,
Wab

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by AKWabbit:
Not undocumented common knowledge.
.
.
.
.
Your vague "well that's not the way I always imagined it would feel..." anecdotes are irrelevant.

Brit Typhoons smashing against fields' right side hangars because they couldnt overcome the yawing to the right even with full rudder deflection. Both well documented and well known.

AH's N1K2 doing 27 low speed loops in a row without playing the helicopter on the top (2000 hp engine with an airframe a bit heavier than that of a spit XIV).

I just took off from a CV in a typhoon, offline, filmed it. Want me to post the film?

Because the 27 loops film is posted elsewhere.

Anyway I am ready to receive the flames...I have made my point and argumented it. I'm out of this thread.

Have a nice day.

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by AKWabbit:
Not telepathically channeling Kurt Tank's spirit.

Regards,
Wab

Jeez, Wab! What if I'd just had an appendectomy and read this?? I'd have popped all the stitches!  Be careful!  

Things I'm not holding my breath waiting for:

Ram's complete, absolutely perfect flight model programming for even ONE WW2 aircraft.

Fishu's complete, absolutely perfect ballistic trajectory and damage model program for even ONE WW2 airborn weapon.

Guess I'll just go with what HTC tells me is their best effort. At least it's coded and works. At least I know they try to make it better everyday.  

Anyone still wondering if the continuous, rancourous b*tching is getting a little old for the Grapevine Gang?

Man, if I was them, I'd cheerfully accept polite critiques.

But I'd zap the "non-stop two-year-old infantile no-data attitude" guys from the board and the game in a nano-second.

It's not worth $30 to listen to that stuff.

There was one guy b*tching at HT last nite while he was playing the game!

HT, you need a zapper! A PERMANENT zapper.  

[RAM]

Ahem, just dropped by again, to say this.

Toad, you are a lot of things from my point of view, and very few of them quite good. I dont use to say things like this on public, but as you have a "demagogic" Email instead of the true one, I have to tell this on public. I would've done it on private If I could.
 
One of the things I most dislike from you is that you are the Master of Demagogy.

And one of the other things I dislike from you is that most times your posts remember me a Vulture's attitude. You only drop by when you know you can get some "easy" dead meat. But be ware, I'm not dead.

And now yes, I'm out of this thread (sorry, had to answer him and this is the only channel I can use  ).

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-28-2000).]

[Toad]

QUOTE: RAM

"Toad, you are a lot of things from my point of view, and very few of them quite good."

What a coincidence! I think almost EXACTLY the same thing about you! In fact, I'd only change two words into just one if I was going to say that about you. Can you guess which two?    

When's that Flight Model coming out Ram? The world is waiting.

   

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 12-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 12-28-2000).]