Author Topic: Dora experts ... (Read 5121 times)

Batz · « **Reply #45 on:** May 31, 2004, 06:11:53 PM »

Does it say whetehr it was the low pressure mw50 kits? ("Oldenburg system")?

GODO · « **Reply #46 on:** May 31, 2004, 06:18:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Batz
Does it say whetehr it was the low pressure mw50 kits? ("Oldenburg system")?

Only "Notleistung mit MW50".

GODO · « **Reply #47 on:** May 31, 2004, 06:26:00 PM »

With MW50 "in volldruckhöhe" is marked as 5,7Km with a top speed of 702 Km/h.
With MW50 "om boden" 0km max speed is 612 Km/h.

Crumpp · « **Reply #48 on:** May 31, 2004, 06:57:51 PM »

Not in operational JG's they were not using MW 50. III/JG54 was the conversion test unit. Until they cleared the plane no other units recieved Dora's.

You might be refering to the test data from WNr 174-054 FW-190 V54, the second FW -190D prototype which was converted from GM-1 to MW-50 to test the system. It conducted a few test flights and crashed on 5/8/44. It was repaired and flew again but due to the nature of the repairs only flew low altitude test's.

It was replaced by WNr 210 048.

Yeah, there were some test A/C around but none in the Jagdwaffe until a single unit with MW-50 was delivered to III/JG 54 in October 44. Good news is that in November 44 the Dora was cleared for service and other Gruppen began to convert.

III/JG2, II/JG26, and II/JG301 recieved their first Dora's in November 44. III/JG54 also reached it's authorized strength of 80 FW-190D9's in November. Junkers TAM reported that all three Gruppen wre proceding with the 1900 hp conversion but the work was very difficult at the front due to no hangers and frequent rains.

By the End of December 44 Three more Gruppen had converted and 183 Dora's were operational with the "Sonderaktion 1900PS" TAM conversion and a further 60 were delivered with MW-50.

So, NO there were no Operational Dora's with MW-50 before October 44. And then there was just one.

Crumpp

MiloMorai · « **Reply #49 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:11:36 PM »

D-9s in III./JG54 as of end of month

Sept - 18
Oct - 56
Nov - 68
Dec - 49

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biiijg54.html

III./JG 2 only had 35 Doras, end of month, Dec 44

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biiijg2.html

II./JG26 had as of end of month

Nov - 55
Dec - 39

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biijg26.html

II./JG310 only had 18 end of month, Dec 44

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biijg301.html

GODO · « **Reply #50 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:27:58 PM »

The list does not contain WNrs, neither any mention to D9 being a prototype. In any case, the number of operational D9s by Oct 44 was anecdotal.

About the 1900Hp boost, AFAIK was compatible with MW50, not just substituted by MW50.
By that time, 190A8s were already developing 1900Hp in WEP with C3 injection, but were clearly surpassed in substained climbrate at sealevel by D9 with a similar weight (9,7 m/s for A8 without WEP and 11,3 m/s for D9 without WEP). It seems to me that takeoff power switched from 1730Hp to 1900Hp. But even with 1900Hp and, lets suppose, better prop efficiency, it would not win clearly over a 1900Hp 190A8 (1.65 ata 2700 rpm) in climbrate at sealevel. The fact is that D9s outclimbed and outaccelerated A8s at will at any alt.

GScholz · « **Reply #51 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:38:11 PM »

Please stay on topic. Does our Dora use too much fuel? That's what I want to know.

Thanks.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #52 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:44:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
Please stay on topic. Does our Dora use too much fuel? That's what I want to know.

Thanks.

I posted some data on page 1, so go test and see if the AH Dora gets the same results.

GScholz · « **Reply #53 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:51:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
BMW allowed 12.5% reserve. Did Jumo also use this reserve percentage?

From the Tank bio book,

TO&E - 575l/hr @ 3250rpm
climb - 480l/hr @ 3000rpm
max cruise - 350l/hr @ 2700rpm
above at SL

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
In any case the Dora is burning 590.5 L/h at MIL in AH2 (1xFBM), and 893.3 L/h at WEP

Any additional information, like original sources?

GODO · « **Reply #54 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:52:51 PM »

You have D9 data in first page. About 190A8 (also mentioned in this thread) it was consuming 146 gals/h at 1.42 ata 2700 rpm (1730Hp) and 185 gals/h at 1.65 ata 2700 rpm (1900 Hp with C3 injection).

GScholz · « **Reply #55 on:** May 31, 2004, 07:59:13 PM »

Then do we have a consensus on that the AH Dora burns too much fuel? Does anyone have any original sources like the Motoren-Karte on the Jumo?

GODO · « **Reply #56 on:** May 31, 2004, 08:04:00 PM »

Here you can find a chart (hard to read) with Jumo fuel consumption data.

Jumo213A fuel consumption chart

I can read clearly only 150l/h for MW50.

Crumpp · « **Reply #57 on:** May 31, 2004, 08:06:39 PM »

The stats listed for the FW-190D9 (fighter/fighter bomber) with 525L of B4/87 Octane fuel are 980 Km.

Although the Manifold pressure/rpm is not listed it should still match up with HT's economical cruise settings if you can convert the map scale.

Crumpp

GScholz · « **Reply #58 on:** May 31, 2004, 08:42:16 PM »

Thanks GODO, I believe it is 800 l/h (B4). I'm having trouble reading the Kraftstoffverbrouch table at the bottom, but from what I see at SL the Jumo burns 270 grams per PS per hour at 3200 rpm and 2140 PS. With a gasoline weight of 732.22 Kg per cubic meter (1000 liters) I come to the conclusion of 788.69 liters per hour at SL. the Dora in AH2 burns 893.3 liters per hour at SL.

Calculating the fuel consumption as altitude increase is a pain since both PS and gram/PS/hour varies.

Perhaps it is time for my first email to Pyro?

Crumpp · « **Reply #59 on:** May 31, 2004, 08:53:02 PM »

Great Chart on the 213A.

On a side note:

Someone let HoHun know the chart on page 104 of Dietmar Hermann's book is a CLIMBRATE test comparing the 190A8/190D9/Ta-152. The chart listed on the above link is an ENGINE performance test of the 213A under different manifold pressure settings.

Crumpp