Author Topic: Suggestion on perk values..  (Read 6817 times)

Offline bozon

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« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2004, 02:26:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Indeed it will change the balance and the game. Fact is..a new patteren Big 5 or Big 6 or 7 or what ever, will eventually take hold. And presto..someone will re-visit the "Perky issue" again. "Most people dont like change" This is a simple fact played out in the game and here in the BBS more times than we can count.
...
 

Sad, but this statment is very true.
Once something is set, people will hate the change and resist it. If it will change, they'll adapt, think they like it and hate any other change...

The problem I see with the MA is that the plane set is TOO diverse.
You have 1939 planes making barly 250 mph flying with 400+ mph planes and even 262 jets. You might as well make an areana with F16s and sopwith-pups.
this makes early war rides useless as they can't catch anything, early war bombers, take less load than late war fighters - why use them?

This bothers a lot of players who want to fly the sopwith-pups, but having an areana full of F16's makes it no fun.

Two suggestions keep coming up again and again:
1. Two areanas - early war and late war.
2. shifting the planeset to mid war so the early ones are not entirely obsolete and you can still see late war monsters. The way to do this is "perk control".

I'll settle for any of the two above, As P51D, Ta152, F4u-4, La7 etc hold little of my interest

#1 will not happen since HTC will not risk changing a working model of a massive MA - even an imperfect one.

#2 will not happen for the same reason as #1 and for the reason Montezuma stated: "P-51D will never be perked in the MA."

Bozon
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 02:28:51 AM by bozon »
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2004, 03:16:42 AM »
Quote
Indeed it will change the balance and the game. Fact is..a new patteren Big 5 or Big 6 or 7 or what ever, will eventually take hold. And presto..someone will re-visit the "Perky issue" again.


 That's undeniably true Mugz.

 However, that itself, is no reason to resist change at all in the first place. Nobody gets it right at the first time.

 Despite new problems rise, things must change to accomodate visible problems. I don't know if you've read the previous incarnation of this thread, but I've done some analysis on the Chog -  IMO its 20% usage was broken up into some 4~5 planes.

 Yes, a lot of part of that usage has transferred over to the La-7, making it another problematic plane. However, still some parts of usage which previously only the Chog was prevalent at, was broken down into many smaller planes. The Chog isn't extinct from the arena. It's relatively a small perk and people regularly choose it from time to time. However, at the same time there are more F6Fs and Seafire, FM2s, and unperked Hogs flying around as carrier Ops plane. Before the perk, Chog was superior to them all.

 Perking the Chog brought some problems which weren't fully solved, but it did solve a lot of other problems too. Stagnance is not the answer.


Quote
"Most people dont like change" This is a simple fact played out in the game and here in the BBS more times than we can count. Why do you think players settle in on a givin ride? Cause we have been told, (rightly so) to "find a plane you like and stick with it" this is the single best advise a new player can take. And an old player soon learns that he/she can benifit from this advise as well.


 But there are reasons to why certain planes are loved. New players stick to overused planes not because it was love at first sight, but because they were the most useful to them.

 Usefulness of planes change as pilot skill progresses. Except, the rate of progress has been slowed down with arena numbers, anonymity, larger and more perilous fights.

 When the arena was 200 people, almost every sortie I could find a 1vs1 fight. I'd get shot down. my opponent, and chat about him for a while on what went wrong. Nobody was totally porking my field, and my country wasn't in immediate threat.

 Nowadays, channel one is overpopulated with hystery and hostility. Theres rarely anytime to talk about unless you leave the MA and the situation it offers, and bring somebody with you to the DA - a limited condition. More often than not the fights are so big and dangerous, that if I don't get with others and set defensive CAP immediately, the field would be overrun by enemies. Same thing when attacking.

 Like I've said before, AH has grown. It's not the "Smallville" anymore. A minimalist approach with certain perks set was enough to motivate people and let them into self-regulation so that the arena was always fun, pleasant, and balanced. It's a "Metropolis" now. Huge numbers of people in it. There's no such thing as self-regulation anymore.

 Is perking more stuff like "police" to the community? Perhaps.

 However the existence of limitations is from a consensus that despite it regulates our individual freedom, some things must be under control and kept that way for the whole society to work out.

 
Quote
Promoting a perk system that will put/force/manipulate more customers in the Aircraft of an individuals chosing. Or the notion that overhauling the perk system to dictate Whom flys what, or how much it get's flown will "balance" the MA is simply ridiculas.


 Same thing holds true for the perked planes right now, does it not? Certainly nobody seemed to like zillion Tempests flying around when they were free at BA. Or, did they like all the 163s and 262s around when it was free before that.

 So it's not actually as ridiculous as you might think. People hate it when they see certain planes - especially a handful of high performers - run rampant in the arena.


Quote
Inside of 4 months tops, a NEW Cluster of favorites will develop. And would consist of 4 to 6 AC types. ie. 1 to 2 ea.TnBers 3 ea.HITnRunners and 2 ea. ROPEnDopers. Thats about IT!


 The cluster will co-exist with the previous section of late war fighters. They are not unavailable nor are they penalizingly high in price. That's the whole key to everything here - perks applied for reduction, not annihilation.

 Currently, while about five planes get 45% usage, the rest of the planes individually achieve 2~3% average. The "hangar queens" of early war rides and specialized attack planes get anything between 0% ~ 1%.

 In the case of the Chog, 8 points brought its usage down to 2% from 20%. It's not a rare plane. They're not extinct. It COEXISTS with other carrier planes with simular usage to them all. (Except the Seafire, again, overused relatively).

 You're assuming that people will gasp at 3 points and entirely give them up and move over to all of the "next best rides" - Like if 10 people use the La-7, all of them will move over to the La-5Fn.

 Me, I'm thinking that if its 3 points, about 6 of them will move over to the La-5FN at all times, but some of the 10 people will from time to time indulge with their perks and use the La-7, constantly maintaining about 4 people using the La-7 at any given time.

 So instead of 10 people all of them in La-7s, we get six La-5FNs and four La-7s. That's what I'm expecting by perking them so low.

 I mean Mugz, wouldn't you fly your favorite perked plane from time to time, if they were about 3~4 points?


Quote
If anyone thinks the vast majority plays AH for the romance of the WWII AC ..your Nuts. The majority paly for one simple reason. We want to Beat the other "Human" player. Why AH..cause its simply the game that offers a very large player base (500 to 600+ online at times )In fact..If your were to develope a Modern JET Fighter, massive multiplayer sim.. id bet a weeks wages that much of the AH community would vanish from HTC as soon as word got around. For most players Its about the adrenalin Rush. Give us YF22's F18,s SideWinders, stingers and a 300 player arena.. And all Helll will break lose


 Some do, some don't. Whatever reason they fly for is a moot point. Who care why they fly what? All I'm caring is that they feel urged to try different things and enjoy many aircraft for different tasks. They don't want to do that? Then fine. Pay 3 points and fly it all the time.

 Ironically Mugz, if they don't care about WW2 ac in the first place, then they might not as well care what they fly and fight with - so is there any reason to feel left out when more planes are perked? Well, according to you they don't care what they fly. Since the perks are applied universally, then everybody is in the same condition.

 So, what's anyone got to lose?

Offline Flyboy

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« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2004, 04:13:51 AM »
kweassa, the p51 will never be perked, thats a fact.

its the "flagship" plane of AH and alot of people will stop playing (and paying) AH if they wont be able to fly it.

Offline Batz

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« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2004, 06:30:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Your experiances may well be more then mine so thus you may have seen it more then me based on time alone.

And yea I do know what you have to say about em. but to be perfectly honest I'f youve seen me around you will know I dont really give a damn What you, Or anyone else on this planet thinks about just about anything. Your words,thoughts or opinions are no more or less valid then mine or anyone elses.

I am far from being dishonest I am simply telling it as I see it and I stand by my words. This idea that wholesale pork and intentional augering is going on is a crock
You dont like me hitting toolsheds. Either stop hoarding me, or stop me. Your choice


I don’t care anything what you think or what your opinions are. They completely irrelevant to me. You want to hunt tool sheds go ahead. I will call it like I see it, whether you like it or not.

You entered this thread; I didn’t look for you and give a reply to anything you have ever posted (IIRC). Not all opinions are equal or of the same value.

It is the tool sheds hunters that kill themselves to get the last pesky fuel tank in AH1 or the last fh and kill themselves to do it. It is these guys who herd together in their 32 plus member "hoards" err squads.... I don’t care how that statement makes you feel.

And yes you are being dishonest... A quick check of you AH1 scores show this.

This tour alone 191% hit percentage against sheds and you die more then 50% of the time doing it (attack score). You died 28 times out of 36 sorties.

Yeah, you don’t pork auger, it’s just after 2 years in AH you haven’t quite got "dog fighting figured out".

As I said quit being dishonest....
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 06:33:37 AM by Batz »

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2004, 08:52:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz
I don’t care anything what you think or what your opinions are. They completely irrelevant to me. You want to hunt tool sheds go ahead. I will call it like I see it, whether you like it or not.

You entered this thread; I didn’t look for you and give a reply to anything you have ever posted (IIRC). Not all opinions are equal or of the same value.

It is the tool sheds hunters that kill themselves to get the last pesky fuel tank in AH1 or the last fh and kill themselves to do it. It is these guys who herd together in their 32 plus member "hoards" err squads.... I don’t care how that statement makes you feel.

And yes you are being dishonest... A quick check of you AH1 scores show this.

This tour alone 191% hit percentage against sheds and you die more then 50% of the time doing it (attack score). You died 28 times out of 36 sorties.

Yeah, you don’t pork auger, it’s just after 2 years in AH you haven’t quite got "dog fighting figured out".

As I said quit being dishonest....


So you feel the same way about my opnions as I do yours. Well at least we're on the same page on that issue.

But unless your name is High Tech, Skuzzy, Pyro or any of the paid HTC staff that have the power to actually do something, then yea,. All opinions are equal or of the same value. I dont see how you could think yours is of any more then anyone elses reguardless of how long you've been here. Though you obviously seem to suffer from that dillusion.

Yes I entered this thread. I read it and voiced my opinion just as is my right to. And just as anyone else can. Even you.
And I do not seek you out either. But if you happen to be the one Im responding to on any post. then thats just the way it is. I typically do not respond because of the poster but rather what is posted so dont take that personally, If you do..oh well, life is tough all over.
 And dont think I seek you out cause I dont. but dont expect it(my responding to posts) to stop either.

32 member Squads typically do not pork and auger. they dont have to. Typically they come in as is the "hoards" a term I beleive I first coined though I may be wrong. Its just that I am the first one I have seen use the term to discribe these huge masses of people that Steamroll base after base and capture it against what turns into only token resistance due to their sheer numbers.
Though the distain of hoards is another point we seem to agree on though we have different definitions of them.
Difference it I am willing to actually try to do something about them rather then just moan.
which brings me to the next point.

Now not that I owe you any explination cause I certainly do not.
Lemme explain to you how I die more then 50% of the time attacking.
First let me say I really dont care about score or stats. and look at ranking as more a source of amusment inasmuch as it is hardly an indicator of anything meaningful. Ive seen people with crappy rankings that were truely outstanding pilots and people with high rankings that were barely talented enough to be a professional vulcher at a de-acked base.

I, 95% of the time attack the bases which are the greatest threat to the knights. Which means I try to attack the bases the enemy hoards and baseporkers are comming from.
That means I am one of the guys thats not willing to sit around and let my country be steamrolled and prefer to take the fight tothe enemy rather then loiter around my own base hopelessly fighting and awaiting the enevitable feild capture or hoping someone else will do what I do.
  So a majority of the time I end up with me against sometimes 10 or more people.
I come in and make a pass a base,fly through the Ack,manned ack,FP and anything else that happens to be there. Sometimes that ground fire will one ping kill me or will do enough damage to make the plane unflyable thus causeing the auger sometimes it doesnt. Often. or I should say the majority of the time that first pass the groundfire at least damages it.
I turn around and do the same thing again with the same results only this time I usually have a bunch of La7's spits, and/or a host of other things chasing after me as well as the ground fire.
Then assuming I have survived the first two passes I am the Fly till  ya die type and wont play the chicken$*%t routine of running away and will stick around and offer to fight whoever is there and usually wont try to RTB till I am either very low or till I run outa ammo.
Considering the sheer amount of planes I end up fighting against at this point And considering I fly many of my flights alone its not surprising how I would die so often.
And from what I have seen as both the porker and the one at the base being porked.
Thats what most of the porker types do
So i would hardly call that being dishonest. and hardly has anything to do with figuring out how to dogfight
I highly doubt you would fare any better

You wanna fly to live fine.
I fly for the Knights.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 08:57:35 AM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline clouds

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« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2004, 08:57:37 AM »
Another system to represent a time scaled planeset is made supposing the entire WWII will last in........we can say a month ? OK, we can suppose a month, then from 1940 to 1945 will pass a month or 2 weeks or 3 weeks or what ever you want and in this compressed period the planeset will be variable depending on the war time progress.

In example, if the entire war will last in a month (4 weeks), during the 1st week we could see planes from 1940 to middle 1041 and so on, thus in the last week we could see only late war plane monsters and no more Zekes vs Me262s.

Obviously, all the pilots will be forced to progress in themselves skills with different birds.

One thing I was forgetting is: this system require only 2 contry sides like in the reality, Axis and Allies no other no Bishes, Knites , Kings or any other chess figures :p

This is something like WB made some years ago (so it's the reason I don't think HTC will adopt this system).

Any suggestion welcome.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 09:05:57 AM by clouds »

Offline Batz

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« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2004, 09:31:36 AM »
Nice wall o'text for someone who "doesn't care".

You addressed your comments at me in this thread, not on the topic. So you must "care" in relation to what I have posted. When you do respond to me my reply will be honest and to the point as shown above.

You don’t know how I fly so there's no need to make stuff up. Your under 3 kills per hour shows you don’t dog fight...

You can have fun however you can find it but in my judgment (even though harsh) why bother playing an air combat game to spend time flying into the ground...?

Of my 10385 posts on this forum over 4 years (as Wotan and Batz, most on event forums and other private forums) or so I don’t recall responding to anything you have ever posted. Unless you reply directly to me I doubt I will have reason to reply to you in the future.

Now look how far away that tool shed has gotten while you spend time on the forums. You better go get it before it slips away completely...

Offline hitech

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« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2004, 10:50:43 AM »
Clouds: It was the system pyro and I created. It didn't work as well as we hoped.


HiTech

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2004, 11:01:25 AM »
Hehe Dredi, "horde" is a term I've coined first some years back, when the Rooks were in the bucket, and Bishops were with most numbers. It was when AW seemingly went out of service and new people started gathering in to the MA, and the arena numbers first went over 300 people.

 It was those days the gigantic base crushing missions surfaced for the very first time, started by Fariz of the 9th GIAP in Bishops. He was the very first person to choose the Typhoons as the new premiere ground-attacker plane, replacing the perked Chog.. and since then, the Typhoons have become one of the "Big Five". Up to that day, nobody in the MA had seen anything like it. There were all kinds of small "sweep" missions and large "bomber" missions, but never has anyone seen fighter-bombers amassed in such a large scale and used with such incredible brutality.

 One day, after being base-busted again, by Fariz and his stooges :D I cried out in dismay, "the frickin' horde's coming again".. and history of the 'horde' started in AH. :)

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2004, 11:35:32 AM »
Quote
32 member Squads typically do not pork and auger. they dont have to. Typically they come in as is the "hoards" a term I beleive I first coined though I may be wrong. Its just that I am the first one I have seen use the term to discribe these huge masses of people that Steamroll base after base and capture it against what turns into only token resistance due to their sheer numbers.


 Its not something to do with the squads, but rather the number of it all. Opinions can be different on who 'started' the 'horde' term, but one thing for certain is it began with Fariz's Typhoon raid missions first, which the Knights and some of their capable squads such as the FBs and Damneds quickly adopted. And with the increase of such deadly use of force, the RJO was firmly organized to fight back against the onslaught.

 What was so surprising and fearful of such missions, was that it was in a fashion which was unseen before. I don't know if Fariz has foreseen through it, or it was an accidental happening, but consequentially it brought a whole new concept of "force by numbers" into the MA.

 Previously, before that point, missions were generally small-scale. They were tightly formed, with squad-individuals participating and trying to follow an organized fashion as if it was real-life WW2 missions - waypoints. However, the gigantic Typhy raids was something totally new. It made full use of the single largest resource available in all countries - namely, the large number of new pilots newly recruited into AH.

 The new types of missions generally didn't seem to care about a certain style or organization. There wasn't any section or wing leaders. There was only the flight leader, who formed a mission, and the rest of the people - incredibly large number of people by the standards of those days - followed. There objective was simple and not complicated. Lift-off, follow, and then attack any base object of opportunity. This mission had a large number of people who were marginally trained, or untrained at all in squad operations. Most of them are lacking in bomb-lobbing skills and such, but what they lacked in precision they made up with incredible numbers. And it was unbelievably powerful. There was basically no stopping it. It didn't matter how many people died through the attack, or how some people smack and augered.

 As long as the initial objective of destroying important field strats were fulfilled - no matter what the cost(which includes suicidal runs) - the defenders air power was decimated almost in an instant.

 You're right, in that nobody wants to willingly kill themselves to get a job done.

 However, the following consequences was that there wasn't any need to motivate or train pilots anymore. As long as they know how to fly and change directions, and press the bomb release button, they could turn the tide of the battle for air-superiority. There is no price to pay for our deaths, while the end-result of such attack runs pays off very high dividends.

 The cost-effectiveness of such missions was so high, that basically it totally got rid of any need of the painstaking process of becoming a better pilot. You don't have to be a good pilot anymore, to help your country. The outcome is the observation as Batz sees - 'suicdal porking'. It wasn't intended to be a suicide, but the end result is the same. It's the easy way to crush your opponent, without having to fight in the air at all - destroy them while they're at the ground.

 It's a brutally effective tactical concept, except it ruins the fun as an air-combat game.

 ...

 Now I understand what you feel, because I've experiened the exact same thing. It was a long time ago, but the Rooks were in the bucket once. I'd do the same thing - taking off, going NOE, approaching the enemy field and hoping to knock out their fuels, so our main base could finally be rid of the insane numbers of enemy fighters terrorizing it. Basically, it's an "eye for eye" sort of tactic. They come in hordes to bust our base? Fine, I go in stealthy and bust their base in retribution - kill most of the fuels so our friends have time to regroup and fight back.

 Now, at this point, this discussion converges with the main theme of the thread. I don't think it's any one individuals fault. I don't see this as Batz does - it's not the individual "dweebey" mindset that is the problem.

 The MA has been shaped into that way, and people simply follow the most effective way they know to crush opposition - namely, steamrolling enemy bases. In turn, the defending side has no choice but to use the same tactics against the attacker - go and destroy their stats to delay attack.

 That, is why, I want to help shape the arena into something else. Steam rolling is effective due to the fact, that the aircraft capable of such attacks are positively impossible to intercept. Its free. Its damn fast. You need an aircraft substantially higher top speed, to stop a Typhoon coming in at 8~10k which just dives straight to the field full throttle, when they see interceptors. More often than not, its impossible to stop them in the air.
 
 A P-51D, or a Typhoon or a P-38L dives very fast, making it very difficult to catch(although the P-38L compresses, and that's why so many people auger in it..). They carry a 2k bomb load. You know how difficult it is to land an effective hit with only a 500lbs bomb. However, if a plane has 2k load, it could land it in the general area and the bomb blast will effectively knock the target out.

 That is why the steamrolling is so effective - the pilot may be auger, but he'll get the job done. The payload, divespeed, and top speed of the plane allows it so. It's cost efficient and doesn't require high level of skill for the pilot. Just fly there, dive, and drop whether you die or not.

 The planes I'm asking to perk, are also (mostly) the planes that carry highest payloads. Would the steamrolling be so effective when it takes a really careful drop to land a single 500lbs directly at the target?

 I think not.

 Would the pilot, however 'dweebey' he may be, be willing to constantly risk loss of 3 perk points again and again in such base-attacks?

 I think not, again.

 If the perks will shift the plane usage to mid-war planes which carry a smaller payload, and has lower top speed - I'm thinking that the steam-roller just won't be efficient or worthwhile to risk dying for. I told you I've done the same thing when we were in the bucket. I did that because I knew, that even if I die, my heavy ordnance load will bust the field strats, which will immediately help my friends fight back.

 I wouldn't feel that way if I had to do it with a plane with a single 500lbs or single 1k bomb. I'd probably have to die again and again and again, and still wouldn't do enough damage to stop the enemy. This works both ways - both for the defender and the attackers.

 Or, if the perks will shift the plane usage to ground attack planes which carry higher payload, but significantly disadvantaged in an A2A fight - such as the 110, Mossie, A-20, IL-2, etc etc.. - then they're much easier to intercept.

 That, is one of the reasons why I'm advocating this perk idea. Arena balance is one reason, this, is the other.

Offline Batz

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« Reply #100 on: June 08, 2004, 12:02:32 PM »
1st you both got history wrong...

Ripsnort's Mag 33 turned the mission planner into a gang bang planner (search that) along time ago.

I remember when I was in JV44 "Wuerger-Staffel" upping at a field in a g2 and watching hogs splatter all around me. One time F6Fs came in and I got 8 kills with out firing a shot.

Soon they would send blitz out in advance and he could de-ack an entire large field by himself, in fact I went offline and practiced for hours until I could do what he could do in terms of deacking.

Then came Fariz's missions. At first they were guaranteed good fights.  The best Ah has had. Typhoons and a2a fights all over.

Then his missions grew as the AH main numbers grew. This became the "horde" we see today. A bunch newbs coming in as cannon fodder committing suicide to get the ack down and the vets would follow in for the vulches. There was even a cartoon made of Fariz and the horde following him over a cliff. I gave Fariz grief for this but to be fair I don’t think it was his intent. The exuberance of his followers and their need to "contribute" lead them into all sorts of silly behavior, like pork and auger.

Search "death per jabo (or buildings destroyed)"

As more AW folks came and the number of new guys grew the numbers of these huge missions multiplied.

Now it has become common place. Air combat has turned into territorial combat with no regard to living "I am dead but at least I got the last fuel tank"

So dred you didn’t coin anything. You don’t even know what you are talking about.

The problem is the impact these types of raids have had on the other folks who just want to up for an hour so and have a few good fights. Some group of 3 or 4 suicide jabo tards can’t dive kill the fhs and themselves and end the fun of 50 plus other guys.

So as time moved on the old guys who just wanted a good fight flew less. No we have more run and more suicide.

I don’t care how any one enjoys there time, it’s their money it’s up to them to determine what’s fun for them. However, I will never understand how some could pay money to do some of the things we see.

I am sure 70 folk will come in here and claim "offense" by what I just typed, well so what. That's just how things are.

To be fair though AH2 so far has had some excellent fights. Slowly more of the main moves in but for now its great fun and well worth 15 dollars even as a beta...

Offline straffo

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« Reply #101 on: June 08, 2004, 12:14:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
It was those days the gigantic base crushing missions surfaced for the very first time, started by Fariz of the 9th GIAP in Bishops. He was the very first person to choose the Typhoons as the new premiere ground-attacker plane, replacing the perked Chog.. and since then, the Typhoons have become one of the "Big Five".  


A little correction here :)
I think the 1st mass usage of the Typhoon was by the Firebird ... and ahem... I did lead this "mission" :D
Fariz was in the Firebird at this time :)

Offline Batz

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« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2004, 12:29:47 PM »
Dweeb :p

Offline clouds

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Suggestion on perk values..
« Reply #103 on: June 08, 2004, 12:40:59 PM »
Hi Pyro.....really did u create those stuffs.

Unfortunately I was not there to see those things and for testing :p but I must believe in you if you say that.

I only know in WB these stuffs are there since years (and you know this ;)  )

Offline Replicant

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Suggestion on perk values..
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2004, 12:47:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Hehe Dredi, "horde" is a term I've coined first some years back, when the Rooks were in the bucket, and Bishops were with most numbers. It was when AW seemingly went out of service and new people started gathering in to the MA, and the arena numbers first went over 300 people.

 It was those days the gigantic base crushing missions surfaced for the very first time, started by Fariz of the 9th GIAP in Bishops. He was the very first person to choose the Typhoons as the new premiere ground-attacker plane, replacing the perked Chog.. and since then, the Typhoons have become one of the "Big Five". Up to that day, nobody in the MA had seen anything like it. There were all kinds of small "sweep" missions and large "bomber" missions, but never has anyone seen fighter-bombers amassed in such a large scale and used with such incredible brutality.

 One day, after being base-busted again, by Fariz and his stooges :D I cried out in dismay, "the frickin' horde's coming again".. and history of the 'horde' started in AH. :)


Not quite correct Kweassa! :)

Actually it wasn't 9 GIAP but 'Firebirds' 56 (Fighter) Sqn back in 2000 http://firebirds.2ndtaf.org.uk/Firebirds_in_Aces_High.htm.  Typhoon's were our squadron plane and we would fly them on squad nights.  I had originally formed the Firebirds but left and temporarily formed 74 (Tiger) Sqn.  I noticed that Fariz had rejoined AH after being out of AH for several months and upon his return I invited him to 74 Sqn and almost immediately we both rejoined the Firebirds (I was original CO of 56 Sqn replaced by Vladd who is still the current CO).  Our squad nights got more popular as more and more non-squaddies joined his missions.  Firebirds, along with 418 Sqn - Hornets, 249 Sqn - Gold Coast and 9 Sqn (and briefly 308 Polish Sqn) were part of the 2nd Tactical Air Force in AH in an attempt to counter Ripsnorts MAG-33.  It was during this time that Bishops actually started to win resets - none of us had seen any since the Rooks and, especially, Knights were the dominant country in AH.  I would say that the 'CHOG/DHOG' horde was the 'original' horde aircraft used by MAG33 from carrier groups.

We both left the Firebirds and he went on to form 9 GIAP where he continued to do missions to help Bishland capture bases.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 01:19:13 PM by Replicant »
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