Slamming the door shut on porkers...

[Westy]

"the true suicide porker while he exists is rare. FAR more rare then they have been made out ot be on the BBS."


Baloney.  They were a malady, a bonified disease in the MA.  And it seems that HTC finally found a partial cure.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Westy
"the true suicide porker while he exists is rare. FAR more rare then they have been made out ot be on the BBS."


Baloney.  They were a malady, a bonified disease in the MA.  And it seems that HTC finally found a partial cure.

Pure and utter nonsence.
 What you were seeing or I most of the time was feild ack and manned ack if not killing em outright, doing enough damage to a plane to make it uncontrolable thus causing the pilot to splatter into the ground. Orrr newbies or other people in a plane they werent used to comming in too fast and not being able to pull out.

Anyone who was ever new to the 38 for example and tried an air to ground attack can attest to that
It is just being perceived as an intentional suicide.

I know. I WAS one of those porkers. And I knew more then a few of them. I Never ever suicided intentionally and I know of VERY few people that did.
And I know on a ton of occasions on my dive  ack would nail me on the way in and do such damage to the AC that I would either blow up, or crash. Quite unintentionally.

Do they exist? Sure. I know that as fact also. But nowhere near in the numbers they are accused of.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Tumor
Ya... and it appears to have worked ~reaaally~ well.

Oh and BTW the reason they didnt work as well as hoped was that we actually put planes in the air to actually stop them.

something few people can be bothered with here.

Its like he old joke.
"How many women does it take to change a broken lightbulb?
None. They'd rather just sit in the dark and whine about it

[kevykev56]

What you were seeing or I most of the time was feild ack and manned ack if not killing em outright, doing enough damage to a plane to make it uncontrolable thus causing the pilot to splatter into the ground.

Westy, Keep WHELS out of the manned ack and there will be lots less of what you think are suicide porkers. That guy is a menace in manned ack, and he isnt the only one, you know who i'm talkin about rthus. These guys give A2G people a bad name...lol

RHIN0

[mars01]

The resets were fun, so was taking bases, gonna miss 'em both. I may be wrong, but I think they are going to be much less common now.

KJ - resets are just as easy or difficult as in AHI MA.

The rooks reset quite easily Sunday, knights were moving and taking bases last week.  The biggest difference is now instead of capping a field and having some fun the land grabbers have been killing hangers right off the bat so it is even more boring to sit over a field with no fighter action.  Don't know why this has changed, I think the land grabbers aren't as confident in their ability to cap so they are taking the easy way out, possibly it is also a factor of the higher fuel burn, cap guys aren't bringing enough fuel to stay long enough.  Anyway, no fighter hangers means no fun to me.

As for Dred, Suicide porkers are the worst form of the game.  The fact that you are defending them here makes me wonder.  I have seen more guys drop their ord and then plow into something rather than fight, more than I've seen guys run.  I rarely ever see a Building battler fight it out.  The funny thing now is they have little affect and they still do it.  I guess old habbits die hard.  

[Tumor]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Oh and BTW the reason they didnt work as well as hoped was that we actually put planes in the air to actually stop them.

something few people can be bothered with here.

Its like he old joke.
"How man women does it take to change a broken lightbulb?
None. They'd rather just sit in the dark and whine about it

Staying alive through a dive-bomb run is not a feat of greatness... even with full ack up for defense.

How is it you conclude some people cant be bothered with putting up defense, while defending the position of doing everything you can to discourage anyone from taking off? (porking fuel).  HOW does porking fuel really even fit in?

[Zippatuh]

Originally posted by Kweassa
How hard to deal it isn't an issue. If theres any plane that needs to be balanced out, the first one is logically the P-51D.

 Although the P-51D is the most hyped plane on Earth, and like others have said it'd be near impossible to see it perked, even if it needs to be.

Get your hands out of my pocket!

Bring back the un-perked C-Hog!

[kj714]

Originally posted by mars01
KJ - resets are just as easy or difficult as in AHI MA.

The rooks reset quite easily Sunday, knights were moving and taking bases last week.  The biggest difference is now instead of capping a field and having some fun the land grabbers have been killing hangers right off the bat so it is even more boring to sit over a field with no fighter action.  Don't know why this has changed, I think the land grabbers aren't as confident in their ability to cap so they are taking the easy way out, possibly it is also a factor of the higher fuel burn, cap guys aren't bringing enough fuel to stay long enough.  Anyway, no fighter hangers means no fun to me.

As for Dred, Suicide porkers are the worst form of the game.  The fact that you are defending them here makes me wonder.  I have seen more guys drop their ord and then plow into something rather than fight, more than I've seen guys run.  I rarely ever see a Building battler fight it out.  The funny thing now is they have little affect and they still do it.  I guess old habbits die hard.  

Gotta agree with ya there on the killing fh's thing, it does make it boring as heck, I think thats why I've been spending more time in the gv's. I remember when everyone used to gripe about that when it happened, now nobody says a thing it seems like.
 
I guess I was thinking it was harder to capture bases because I haven't been on many successful capture attempts lately. As a squad, the Fokkers used to roll em pretty quick when we wanted to, then again, a lot of the squad hasn't been on lately. So there are probably other dynamics going on I'm not taking into account.

Last night, when the knits were down to 2 fields was the most fun I've had in awhile, especially the 3 way at 27. Of course dropping a (1) bomb at v6 and getting 4 kills was kinda cute too.

Well I guess furball's the name of the game now, I've gotta get some skills at it. See, I suck at furballs because to kill I have to commit to a chase, I've never been good at bnz, or slash, or distance gunning or snapshots. I have to be at 300 or less and on your 6. So what usually ends up happening is I commit in the furball to chasing somebody through it and somebody else drops in on me. Either that or I keep my 6 clear and don't get any good opportunities to shoot. I also have trouble getting with the "grain" of the fight, if you know what I mean, it always seems to be going against me. I think I drop into the FB with too much speed or something.

[mars01]

LOL rgr that KJ,
It does seem that there was a little lag before the building battlers got their stuff together.  I think they just needed to get used to the new layouts etc.  Seems they are well on their way tho.

As for FurBalling,

I found I was doing the same thing when I started going into FBs.  I too would get a possible solution and then end up chasing that one guy and not checking my six enough.  

For me the trick was to take a shot if it came and forget about the ones that got away keeping an eye on my six, pulling off of the a guy if another is diving on me.  This way I would stay alive longer and have more of a chance to get back into a position to get some kills.  Patience in kaos is how I describe endurance in a furball.  The spit V is a great teacher, but you have to take it to where your outnumbered cause you aren't going to catch anyting in it lol.  I'm no expert, it's just what worked for me.

Being good at reversals also helps, it takes a little while and a lot of dying till you get decent at it, ( at least it did for me lol and like I said I'm no expert) but it is an invaluable and addictive technique.  Wildthing has some great films of this and there are some great discussions on it as well.  It takes some nerve at first, you really have to let the guy get up on your six and be able to judge his closure speed well, but sooner or later you'll get the feeling and know when he has a shot and when your angle is just enough that he doesn't have the shot.  Then a few jinks and you are either in a rolling scisors, diving away or he goes past you and whammo, he's dead.


Beware tho, once you get the taste of successful furball blood, it's all over.  

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Hi 6Guns.
Yup agree, totally.
Not being able to attrit the enemas resources is totally stupid.
2x fuel burn on a P51 still goes a long, long way. So if the idea was to balnce the never less than 75% fuel availability - it doesn't work. It only kills short legged fighters.

nopoop I agree with a few things, but - I like flying the short legged fighters. Why should any class of planes be 'penalised' to allegedly help the gameplay, which IMHO it isn't.

Actually thinking about it, if HT wants to make it a furball only game get rid of all strats, towns, HQ, etc etc. As 6Guns said buffs have a limited use since this (cough) innovation.

Hiya Kev.
In the link below you find a discussion breaks out on the Subject you are refering to. It was very interesting as well as eyeopening and a little iritating too. Never the less I think it may blow you mind. http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119379&referrerid=7566Here are some clips from the thread.

Originally posted by Hornet
end the landgrab.

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Why? Isnt that what the game is about?

Originally posted by Zazen13
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the fundamental underlying premise of the game "Aces" "HIGH" is a combat flight simulator using WW2 era aircraft. If land grabbing were the underlying premise it might be called "Global" "Conquest" or something. THe land grabbing aspect just provides a context for the perpetuation of the airiel conflict, nothing more.

The land grabbing is just a means to the end, the end being the airiel combat. That is why maps come and go, bases come and go, but the fighting remains largely the same and continues in basically the same form without interuption ad infinitum.

Zazen

Originally posted by Mugzeee
So your basing your opinion on the "Name" of the game? I mean really. To think AH is a product that was specifically and only designed for Virtual Fighter “Aces” to duel or furball seems silly to me.
Seems like a ton of work that HTC has went through to accomplish the "means" you speak of. Eeee gads man, just make a map with 2 bases and Duke it out. On the contrary, i am more inclined to believe they had much more in mind. They added Bombers to the game along with a complex strategic re-supply system. Factories, Cities, Convoy's, trains, and anything else i may have forgotten to include. Oh yes, there are (Tank’s) Did I say Tank’s? Hmmm don’t see how (Tanks) fit in “airiel combat”. They developed a World "WAR" Two simulator. Intentionally or not they developed a War Sim nonetheless. I think the developers had a larger audience in mind. They developed a game that would draw from at least two mindsets or interests. WWII wana be Fighter “Aces”, and those that would like to be a little more in depth with the WAR game. Therefore the "end" of the "means" is $$$$$$.  And that is marketing savvy. A thoughtful approach would have to conclude that AH1 or AH2 is a WAR sim by design. Which of course includes both types of players. Land Grab is here to stay. And actually is what the game is all about as per design.
PS. I still think that HTC should create an Arena strictly for Dog Fighting. This way the debate would end. And the "Aces" could really prove their metal against other "Aces" Not against Bombers and Heavy-laden fighters trying to dive on a ground target. However, the crying would still continue. Because the "Aces" would complain that there aren’t enough noobs to pad their score.

Originally posted by TequilaChaser

Taken from HTC Home Page:

 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High fidelity air combat is the heart of Aces High
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



all the rest was an after thought........

Originally posted by MadSquirrel
MadSquirrel

Hold the bus!
Lets read the rest of that quote:

High fidelity air combat is the heart of
Aces High, but it doesn't end there.  In addition to
flying a multitude of aircraft types, players can
also man vehicles, boats, amphibs, gun batteries,
and ships.

Hello ! ! !  Seems to me that there was more in mind than just air combat.

You don't need Gun Batteries or Vehicles to air dual now do you.

LTARsqrl  

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by mars01
KJ - resets are just as easy or difficult as in AHI MA.
As for Dred, Suicide porkers are the worst form of the game.  The fact that you are defending them here makes me wonder.  I have seen more guys drop their ord and then plow into something rather than fight, more than I've seen guys run.  I rarely ever see a Building battler fight it out.  The funny thing now is they have little affect and they still do it.  I guess old habbits die hard.  

Im not defendng the intentional suiciders. I look at them with the same distain as the rest of you. You wanna pork a feild and then fight it out till you can either RTB or die as I do fine.
You wanna pork a feild then run away, Fine.
Porking then INTENTIONALLY augering is classless not to mention dweeby.

But, As one who has porked a feild or two I am saying that  the intentional suicidie porker exists in far less numbers then what they are made out to be.
And what I am pointing out is whats really happening in the majority of the perceived suicide porker cases.

[SlapShot]

But, As one who has porked a feild or two I am saying that the intentional suicidie porker exists in far less numbers then what they are made out to be.

Thats true ... but it didn't lessen the impact and damage that just a few dweebs could dish out. The other half of the problem was the imbalance of fuel porking and trying to get it back up.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Tumor
Staying alive through a dive-bomb run is not a feat of greatness... even with full ack up for defense.

 

For those experianced  enough  in it your right. Other factors also come into play.
In my experiance I have learned this

The fewer the people attacking the lower your chances are for surviving.
the less planes in the attack the less planes there are for feild ack to concentrate on.
The amount of passes you make on a base will lower your chances for survival
 Also depends on direction of your flight path.
There are certain attack paths you can take that are for lack of a better term, "suicidal"
example on AH1 Medium feilds if you came in to attack the feild from the SSE  you were almost assured of being shot down on the way in.
I first noticed this when flying with my squad one of the guy kept getting nailed on the way in using his assigned attack path.
Couple weeks later I was on this same path and kept getting nailed time after time. always on the way in. each time I used this direction of approach I would get nailed on the way in and at different bases too.
And this wasnt from a feild gunner but from auto feild ack.
Point is some approaches are far safer ad more survivable then others.
The trick is in knowing which is which

Also feild gunners. some of these guys as was mentioned a couple posts ago can gun with uncanny accuracy.

and for some unexplainable reason, some folks just seem to be flak magnets. no matter what they do Acl or flak just seems to nail them.
On another thread I saw folks complaining about the Flak (puffy black kind) and how accurate it was and how it managed to shoot them down so much. Now I pretty much ignore the puffy black ack as I couldnt even tell you the last time it pinged me let alone shot me down. But there we have  people complaining how it always nails them.

And there are others who never seem to get hit by either kind and manage to fly perfectly straight lines through it time and again and not get so much as a scratch.
I've seen this a bunch of times at CV's
I personally consider myself VERY lucky if I can make a diving run on a CV and manage to get close enough to the CV  to drop,let alone come out alive.

Yet I have seen others make several passes on a CV with perfect impunitity

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Tumor


How is it you conclude some people cant be bothered with putting up defense, while defending the position of doing everything you can to discourage anyone from taking off? (porking fuel).  HOW does porking fuel really even fit in?

Because you can usually see an attack comming. All you have to do is keep an eye on the map, and/or pay attentiong to the warning given by other players.

Also if your upping alot of planes on a base capture attempt, you can or could  I should say,  pretty much bet that weeks paycheck your base is a prime candidate for a baseporking counter attack.

Fact of the matter is there are VERY few people who would/will bother to up planes to stop the pork attacks.
Easily 90% of the successful attack runs I've made are met with with zero people in the way to stop me. till Im well into  my run.
Lately though there are a few that seem to have grown brains and get the point that porkers can be stopped and on more then 1 occasion I have met with resistance causing me at eh very least to drop my ord for the fight.

Im not doing everything I can to prevent people form taking off.
Only the hoards.
Unless it was part of squad ops I only porked the fuel where the hoards wre comming from.
My targets of first choice was Barracks and ammo. as that let the furballers furball without leaving open the threat of a capture.
It would also thwart the attempts of small ops intent of feild capture as they typically lacked the resources cap a feild long enough to to drive a goon in from two bases back.
Only when I saw hoards up did I change my target priority to fuel as that was the only thing that actually stopped them or at the veryleast slowed em down

[Simaril]

I have to agree that most augers on ground attacks are unintentional, especially since I usually see them after embarrassingly bad attack runs. Maybe we notice the "suicide" more because its so freakin' annoying to ty to defend a base that's suddenly become undefendable with the loss of fuel.

And, by the way, there's a huge difference between the ordinance previously required to take out all fuel, and the amount needed to take out all FH's. At the same time, i'd argue that there's little differnce between having no planes available, and having no fuel to put in the planes. Either way, defenders can't effectively up. So I'm not sure the change makes that much difference. i do know there were many times I wanted to fly in the MA, but when I logged all front line bases were porked. I'd look at CT, hunt for a trainee, or just bag AH completely. In a combat flight sim, you OUGHT to be able to fly something....

There's something far more annoying to me than augering attackers near bases, though. Maybe I'm only seeing the still connected guy's survivor's view of a CTD, but I've seen WAY too many obviously inexperienced fliers disco when the odds turn against them. I've worked to set up a clean attack run on a trio of Buffs, I start to slash, and never get fired on -- heavily hitting. Tracers start searching as I pull out and roll over, but never quite touch me -- and next I know, no more bombers. Or, two friendlies converge on a con deep in our turf, and without a shot fired the stinker disappears so no one even gets a kill. Weenie.