Slamming the door shut on porkers...

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by SlapShot
The fuel whiners could sop the porking if they wanted to...or if they were wize enough to pay attention to the unrealistic inflight DAR in AH.  By (Patrolling) the grids with formations of fighters and intercepting the incoming attacking fuel raiders. NO?

Can't tell you how many times this has been asked and answered.

Yes it can be done, but who the hell wants to do it. For the life of me, I could not fathom flying around trying to find these porkers, if you find them at all,

I have to disagree as any reasononable person would. Finding them is very easy...as well as very quickly done. Just as quick as getting into a furball.. Unless of course your refering to the furballs 6 or 8 miles or closer to a base. You know...the furballs that occur at or near a base that is was or is going to be under attack? If this is you...then Fuel porkers dont hurt your game much at all.
I have flow entire Patrol Missions to hunt for porkers Many many times. Its Fun Its as Fast as you want it to be  And its Effective. The object isnt to fly around and wait. The object is to watch the Dar.... spot the attacking mission. Get your Spit V landed, and re-up one of the interceptor AirCraft from the planeset and fly to the fun.

Originally posted by SlapShot

and then trying to take them down. Most will not dump ord and fight, they will simply nose down and scream right by you and you then have little chance of catching them.

A few thoughts come to mind here.
First....you must not be flying the proper aircraft for intercept.
Might i recomend the following
P51D, 109g10, 190d9, La7 for short range. I know you fly the P38 a lot. This is a great interceptor with a little Alt to start. Its a great diver although you have to manage it's speed carefully thru the High Alt to Low alt transistion. Once its lower in the dive...It is one of the fastest planes in the shallow dive AH has to offer. The Spit V isnt going to cut the mustard. Leave it in the hanger on these missions.
Any ride with good to better excelleration will do the job
Secondly.Your Posistioning and timeing must be off a little.
Just have to plan ahead to build speed and angle to cut em off.
Thirdly. Most do indeed dump ord.
Fourthly. The ones dedicated to the mission try their best to get the original mission completed. And they do try to hold Ord. But most dont.

Originally posted by SlapShot

Unless you organize (key word organize) a group of fighters (at least 10), for this objective, then most efforts are in vain. Next time your in Mugzee, call out for pilots that will fly this type of sortie for an extended period of time. Then tell us how many you got and how long did they stay on station. I would love to know the outcome.

 We usally have 15 to 20 pilots sometimes even more when we fly this type of mission. Or any other mission type for that matter. Some times we will break into 2 or even 3 flights. and cover several hot spots.
Having an organized squadron has its benifits.

Originally posted by SlapShot
[

Bottom line is that fuel-porking is no longer an issue and it should remain that way. Take out all the FHs ... that's more of a challenge then throwing a couple of hundred .50 cals at a fuel bowser.

That is your opinion. But i wouldnt hold my breath. I see a need for it to change. Hangers are no more a challange than fuel bunkers..just a bigger target that needs a little more tonage.

Originally posted by mars01
And to add to what slap said,

That style of play,  "up and patrol", is what the snapshots etc are all about.  If you have ever flown one you will know that the majority of the time is spent just flying around.  .

I appears that you would imply that Flying a Patrol in the MA is the same as flying a Patrol in the Snapshot event.
Apples to Oranges. Thats wayy off target sir.

[kevykev56]

Like you said you stay as far away from furballs as you can, so how can you know what they are and what the purpose is

This is an assumption on your part that I have never participated in furballs. Well I have, thats why I stay away. SA is key of course but fly a high alt orbit around one....watch the guys go in, die. over and over again, yes some make it out, most dont.

Anyone worth their salt wants to land kills, especially when you went into the snake pit took a few scalps and got out.

And you dont think this applies to "building battlers?". The ones you call suicide dweebs? Sure they (furballers) want to land but alot of them just dont care if they land or not, its all about the next kill.

I expect to live from every furball I enter and land kills.

Mars1 you are an exception to the rule. I have fought against you in the MA and respect your abilities greatly. I had a very memorable night in a hellcat against you. I would expect you would want to live just as I do when I am hitting a strat to slow an overwhelming numbered enemys advance. I dont just hit an airfield because its there, it takes planning and a few brave airmen. These are just two opposing viewpoints.

What mentality of furball only. Are you telling me you and your late squad members could not capture bases in AHII? How is the choice to furball impacting your choice to land grab.

It isnt the furball only that is causing the loss. It is the inability to slow the hordes. Only the furball is now the option for play, unless you have a huge number of fighters to throw back at the enemy. But alas they are all in the furball, and we are getting rolled. So in frustration of not wanting to furball all the time, I am losing squadmates. It isnt just because of the change in gameplay, there are other factors, but this one does weigh heaviest in there eyes.



Mars1...we could go around all day about this one, it is just two opposing viewpoints that will prob never be able to be worked out. I respect your opinions and you as a pilot and person....  


RHIN0

[mars01]

I appears that you would imply that Flying a Patrol in the MA is the same as flying a Patrol in the Snapshot event.

How so Mugz? No disrespect.  You said get some guys together and patrol.  How is it going to be any different from a snapshot?


Kev,

I guess my point is that there are suicide dweeb JABOs and suicide dweeb Furballers, but I think the majority of the players are concerned with making it out.  Thats why when people call furballing Quake With Wings, I don't see the comparison.  All the analogies between Quake and Furballing can also be made between Quake and JABO.  I really don't think any aspect of this game compares to any aspect of Quake.  I know it is just a cheap shot at the furballers.

Mars1 you are an exception to the rule. I have fought against you in the MA and respect your abilities greatly. I had a very memorable night in a hellcat against you.

Thanks, as I have the same respect for you and your abilities.  I hope my earlier post did not come off differently.  Again tho, I think the guys that don't care to live are more of the exception.

Personally I think the only way to slow the horde is to throw another one at it.  With these kind of numbers and no real direction there is not much else that can be done.  The fuel porking didn't really stop the horde it just changed the place they uped from and stoped the fighting in that area.

I agree we have different views I respect that

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by mars01
How so Mugz? No disrespect.  You said get some guys together and patrol.  How is it going to be any different from a snapshot?

Its about 350 to 500 players different at times.
Meaning it is much easier to find the action in the MA on this type of mission.

Originally posted by mars01
The fuel porking didn't really stop the horde it just changed the place they uped from and stoped the fighting in that area.

It depends on the game you play. For me the
idea of attacking feild strat has many faces. Some times fuel porking is to move the front back 25 miles to make way for the eventual capture of the imediate front base. Some time it is to slow the NME attack so the re-supply can have time to take effect on a badly damaged freindly base. And allow our country to get some kinda footing when the NME Outnumbers us by a large margine. Thats Of course this is just the tip of the ice berg. But you get the idea.
So yes it does just change where the NME ups from. Which is exactly what i want them to do in some cases. Just another strategy. While i know this Bugs the hell outa some ppl. It is part of the game HTC has created. Its part of the game i love. I also love furballing and 1v1s 2v2 1v2 and so on. In Ah1 is was a pretty good stick. Although i do tend to have Ups and Downs. I just feel that the changes that are in AH2 are un-waranted IMO. Thats all.  

[mars01]

I guess mugz, you could achieve the same affects killing the FHs.  
Yeah it's a little more difficult and it takes more of a conserted effort, but when something removes a whole type of game play, it should take a large effort to do.

[Simaril]

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Originally posted by Simaril
I have to agree that most augers on ground attacks are unintentional, especially since I usually see them after embarrassingly bad attack runs. Maybe we notice the "suicide" more because its so freakin' annoying to ty to defend a base that's suddenly become undefendable with the loss of fuel.

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Simaril.. Please understand that the only reason i am using your quote is that it is a common one and was here for convient use. So im not directing this towards you per se.
I get just as annoyed at the guys that claim that a base is un-defendable because said base has been fuel porked...Or for that matter the supporting base/bases have been fuel porked
 

Thanks, Mugzee, for your gentleness with a new guy on the Board. But, while I understand what you are saying, I guess I gotta remnind you that not everybody has been playing combat sims since AW-1 [when it cost $20 a minute and guys had to fly uphill on both ingress and egress ]

I'm not a noobie dweeb (at least I hope not), but I can't slow a horde by myself. If I see 1/4 fuel, it limits the planes I can up, and most importantly it limits the number of fellow MA pilots who will attempt to defend a base . Fewer defenders means I'm outnumbered, and at my skill level that means I'm very likely to die to no good effect. As in real life, i generally try to avoid that situation. Would I do it for King and Country? Probably. To pull a squaddies virtual tush out of a virtual fire? Most likely. To save a virutal piece of real estate that none of my vitual countrymen apparently care about? Probably not. You've seen the response to "Need help at 5!!" calls, too -- be honest!

So if fuel is 1/4, my ability (and the ability of many others) to base defend is limited. I can snipe at the wings, upping elsewhere and trying to intercept loners inbound to the attacked base -- but the realistic impact I'll have protecting that base is essentially nil. Low fuel bases are very difficult for average players to defend.

Guys, while the vets are heavily represented on the BBS, I think the journeymen make up the bulk of the MA crew--and the bulk of HTC's monthly subscriptions. In all you folks' plans and suggestions for improvement, leave some room for our skill level too!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by kevykev56

It isnt the furball only that is causing the loss. It is the inability to slow the hordes. Only the furball is now the option for play, unless you have a huge number of fighters to throw back at the enemy. But alas they are all in the furball, and we are getting rolled. So in frustration of not wanting to furball all the time, I am losing squadmates. It isnt just because of the change in gameplay, there are other factors, but this one does weigh heaviest in there eyes.
 

See and thats just it. I would have no complaints or problems  with the current inability to pork fuel if there ws something else that could be done to slow the hordes. None zero zilch.
As it stands now this fuel situation helps out the firballers ALOT. thats cool, thewy should be able ot play the game the way they want to reguardless of how mindless some of us think it is.
the only real problem is this also helps the hordes ALOT cause  now thre is no way to slow em down. Killing barracks is about as good as spitting into a 100 MPH headwind as the hordes always have more then enough people to keep a feild well capped and vulched even with all FH up  for goons to come in from 2-3 complete sectors away which they often do.
If they are going to keep the current fuel situation the way it is fine But then at LEAST do something to balance out the country numbers.
Being hoarded at 10-1,2 or even 3 odds is only fun for the 10 when there is no way to effectively strike back, And when fighting back means upping only to have 4-5-6 or 7 people all pounce on you at once.

So what you gonna do? Up in a  now cheap perk plane?
all that accomplishes is insread of having 4-5,6 or 7 pounce you, now you have  10-11 or 12 on you.
Wheee we have the cheap perk planes.
Does about as much good as being a lamb in a box canyon surrounded by a pack of half starved jackals.
But we have our cheap perk planes

[Stang]

LOL, hop in the jet, fly to the back of the horde, pop 10-15 of them, horde stopped, problem solved.

[Ratnick]

Slapshot -

I been in AH for 1 1/2 yrs now - I was referring to the 'suicide' dive bombing. I dive bomb quite a bit and and when someone can make multiple passes in one sortie they are going to cause more damage and be more accurate. When I'm on the other side defending I would rather see an idiot try a suicide run than multiple successful runs on my field. From what I've experienced the suicide guys are not accurate or effective.

I've been on the receiving end of a MAWs capture more than once and I appreciate a clean capture.

I'm glad to see others thinking that strats and xones should have more emphasis. I realize AH2 is still being adjusted and I look forward to more because I don't think we're there yet.


Jaxxo -

I wasn't talking cv's tj - they're a tad bigger target. Even dougie could hit one.

[Ratnick]

Slapshot -

I been in AH for 1 1/2 yrs now - I was referring to the 'suicide' dive bombing. I dive bomb quite a bit and and when someone can make multiple passes in one sortie they are going to cause more damage and be more accurate. When I'm on the other side defending I would rather see an idiot try a suicide run than multiple successful runs on my field. From what I've experienced the suicide guys are not accurate or effective.

I've been on the receiving end of a MAWs capture more than once and I appreciate a clean capture.

I'm glad to see others thinking that strats and xones should have more emphasis. I realize AH2 is still being adjusted and I look forward to more because I don't think we're there yet.


Jaxxo -

I wasn't talking cv's tj - they're a tad bigger target. Even dougie could hit one.

[SlapShot]

As it stands now this fuel situation helps out the firballers ALOT. thats cool, thewy should be able ot play the game the way they want to reguardless of how mindless some of us think it is.
the only real problem is this also helps the hordes ALOT cause now thre is no way to slow em down. Killing barracks is about as good as spitting into a 100 MPH headwind as the hordes always have more then enough people to keep a feild well capped and vulched even with all FH up for goons to come in from 2-3 complete sectors away which they often do.

DRED ...

When the "Horde" arrives on your doorstep, there is really nothing that one can do at the base being attacked.

The real payoff is that the "Horde" cannot send out its preemptive porkers to the surrounding bases, thereby eliminating any aggressive actions from the surrounding base. I know this kills Beet1e but that is one of the most enjoyable things in AH ... pissin' Beet1e off ...

There was a longstanding battle between 34 and 41 last night. It was not a "furball" (looked like one), but a true battle. This was all due to the fact that fuel could not be porked at either base. The advantage wained both ways for hours. This is what it's supposed to be like IMO.

[pellik]

Originally posted by Adogg
The problem was those friggin FHs. You cannot tell me that if a base was under attack and its hangers were destroyed that any attempt to rebuild would not be instantly met with straffing runs by the circling enemy pilots.

There should be a kind of modifier that slows down the rebuilding of hangars if the base continues to be under attack. Failing that lengthen the down time for the hangers but Increase the number of troops to take the base.

Forget the modifier, give me little guys with wheel burrows running out of the tower every few minutes when a FH is down so that I can straife em. Killing them would make driving GVs a lot more fun too.

-pellik

[mars01]

Forget the modifier, give me little guys with wheel burrows running out of the tower every few minutes when a FH is down so that I can straife em. Killing them would make driving GVs a lot more fun too.

That would be pretty sweet.

[DREDIOCK]

DRED ...

When the "Horde" arrives on your doorstep, there is really nothing that one can do at the base being attacked.



There was a longstanding battle between 34 and 41 last night. It was not a "furball" (looked like one), but a true battle. This was all due to the fact that fuel could not be porked at either base. The advantage wained both ways for hours. This is what it's supposed to be like IMO. [/B]

I agree theer isnt much you can do once they have arrived. Well not wiht the first wave anyway.
I would study the maps and see them upping or where they were headed. Isnt a tough job figuring out what the intended target is most of the time.
So I would up and hit that base they were coming from to stop the second wave. A few pilots can a good prtion of the time hold out for a short period against the hordes initial assault. But they cant do it forever. Striking the attacking base  would effectivly halt the second wave comming in attrition would eventually take care of the first wave.


I understand whatr your saying. there was a similar fight in the northwest last night. Quite enjoyable. reasonably balanced fight with the advantage changing hands several times but never quite getting to the point where it was overwhelming and if it was all like that all would be fine and dandy.
 

Its not those kinda fights I have the problem with. its the hordes.
You would rarely see me porking fuel at what looked to be a fair balanced fight Unless it was part of soome squad ops where I had little control over target selection. Myown personal target priority for these situations was/is always Barracks ammo and maybe dar.

 You would however see me obliterating fuel and barracks and anything else I could at a base the enemy was using to up in large masses to horde

Your right a balanced struggle for bases IS the way it should be.
Which is why there is a legitimate need for a way to balance out the sides to at least reasonable numbers.
Times like sunday night horde night are at the point of being completely rediculous. And as tough as they were to stop or slow down,  there were times when it was done.
Now though  its impossable
And if your on the receiving end are about as much fun as laying down on an active mound of fire ants.

[ET]

First it was the dang fluffers killing hangers form 30K and then they corrected that with bombsites that had to be calibrated.
Then the suicide porkers came in and dove ,dropped their bombs and augered. Up again and repeat until they porked the fuel and anything else. Now we got hordes, 40-50 flying around nme base, all looking for the vulch. Heck, they pork my base, so what. I go fight somewhere else. I ain't got time to run resupply anyway. It ain't macho and I'm too important to waste my time like that. Iwould have checked my crystal ball for the future but the seal broke and all I could see was condensation. I could agree with most of it but sometimes I'm disagreeable. What the heck are you supposed to do if you play for the fun of it.