HispanosVsMausers

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Verm, I flew nearly 50% my sorties on Tour3 in P51. Sorry to disagree with you but I find P51 weapons quite accurate and they feel ok at right distances (I.E. less than 400 yds

The .50s should be lethal out to 1600yds.  There is a kill recorded at this distance, though it was the M3 .50 instead of the M2 we have.  Only real difference between the 2 being the ROF (M3 can put more lead on target in a given time).

I've been wondering for a few days if there wasn't something up with the hispanos because of how easy it is for those DweebC's to kill tanks in a single pass when just about every other bird has to make multipasses just to damage them.

[-lazs-]

Hmm... I have only been on this sim for less than a week and less than 100 kills but I have hit 190's with with the 1c and had em escape.. I have been one ping killed by both 190's and 109's.   I have flown the fifties and think that 6 fifties are not too bad in this game but compared to 4 151's they are laughable.

Has anyone done any real testing or are we all just a bunch a whiners blowing smoke and making excuses?
lazs

[RAM]

Cave, what I tried to say is that I never,or rarely, fired from more than 400yds. And as I adjusted convergences in p51 dispersed (from out to in, 325,350,375), my hits were never concentrated. A burst of concentrated fire on convergence point at 650 yds would be as deadly as were my settings hiting at,say, 450 yds.

I'm not messing with long range damage here, but, still, to say that M2 should be "lethal" up to 1600 yds is quite strong. first because you must hit at those ranges. and second because you must land a "golden twinkee" hit...if 50 cals were deadly up to that range,then Hispanos M2 would be MORTAL up to 2500yds!!!...

where did you read about 1600 yds kills?. I never saw such distance, and I'd like to know that. I bet that if there was some kill at those ranges it should've been a Japanese plane...for those even 4 50 cals were mortal...

It is all relative at long ranges. What I am asking here is to relative damage done by Mausers at 100-200 yds (my pings), and one ping done by a Hispano at 350 yds (his only ping).

Longer ranges dont matter me anymore. I still have the eventual con that kills me 1.2K away, but I learnt to forget it and regard it as bad luck
(curious the only planes that kill me that way are Spits and F4Us...guess why?   )

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-09-2000).]

[Maniac]

I tought that alot depended on _where_ u hit on the AC...



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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-


   
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[DoctorYO]

I have already pointed out that the balistics in AH is undermodeled...


Thats right ballistics undermodeled....


Give me a ak-47 (7.62mm) let me dump 30 rds in the fuselage, then 30 for tail, then 30 for wing etc...This is a fighter of course...

lets check the dammage of them 30rds to each area of the plane.

In my opinion per each(note per 30) 30 rds that aircraft would have suffered dammage to force it out of the air....

Now in this game i can drop 200 7.62mm's into a F4 along with 20 20mm rounds and if im luckly i may down it....(the single 20mm is so undermodeled its pathetic we are talking cannon here not bean shooter....)

3-4 cannon rds exploding near/in a aircraft should be devastating.


Now granted people will squeak and moan on how they were shot down by 1 ping... wah wah wah...  Thats real life bubs...  your aircraft should avoid fire at all costs period...Gas and engine dont last too long against any type of firepower..

Some of you have never seen the carnage that a high powered mg round can do...  Some of you have never seen what a high powered cannon can do...  I have, let me tell you something there is no freaking way a soft target( aircraft) can stand up to that..  Now some of you are going to say wah i heard jimmy boy flew his aircraft home with big holes in ww2...  well guess what for every aircraft that returned with big holes in it 100 with similiar dammage went down.. I would also like to point out how people make their story one thing when what happened in real life is completely different..

Dont take my word on it do a little research yourself.. on modern ballistics you may get alittle brighter.

I would also like to point out that hitting aircraft at distance should be much harder than it currently is...  For every 1 inch you are off target at 100yds you would be 1-4 inchs per 100yds there after. so a 700yds shot if you would be several feet off target...Now this is in a vacuum not counting pwder per round or windage or chaos theory etc...

go grab you hunting rifle and fire off 1 round at a 300 yd target... can you hit every time... hell no you cant (with a scope maybe) No get in your car and try the same shot moving at 20mph... lot harder now ...

My point is simple we need more dispersion at greater ranges... if it is modeled then its not modeled enough...increase it along with lethality and this game will up its realism big time....


my 3 1/2 cents


Regards,


DoctorYO

[RAM]

Maniac, hits were on Hawg's tail and fuselage.


BTW, I have had just another fight on the MA, this time with a niki. Again 3-4 hits on a deflection shooting, this time concentrated in right wing,from 250 yds to 100 (was a front quarted deflection shooting). No damage on him, at all.

PLEASE do something with mausers! this is damned pissing  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-09-2000).]

[funked]

DoctorYo, it seems like we have a lot of dispersion already.

Take a Typhoon and strafe a ground vehicle.  The pattern of strikes on the ground is about 3 times the size of the vehicle!

[Maniac]

I´d rather see HTC turning down the f4u guns then upping the FW ones.

I cant understand this whining, i have 5 kill sorties with 50´s without problem and u are saying u cant kill with the 20mms?



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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-


   
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[Pongo]

Lazs.
Glad you took that minute to let us know how much superior you are.
The 50s you approve of where much weaker 2 months ago. They were improved in response to that "whining" you seem so distainful of.
Pyro has a dificult problem to address here. The numbers he has for the HS cannon and the 151 are dead accurate. But the effect in the game should not be so different. This is probably because of the law of diminishing returns. Some of that capability in the HS is overkill. The penetration is not needed in air to air and if it is signifigantly more accurate then the 151 it is only so at a range that should not be viable in WW2 air to air engagments.
The worst thing that could be done is to improve the 151. I am sure that wont happen.
Most of us here like the leathality of the 151 vs fighters and bombers. You have to hit. But when you hit it usually stays hit.  
The 50 has been improved a bit and I think it feels good too.
But when you get your accuracy up to around 10% the f4u1c is just silly.
So do your tests. I am sure that pyro would appreciate it and we will appreiciate it more than name calling.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Maniac:
I´d rather see HTC turning down the f4u guns then upping the FW ones.

I cant understand this whining, i have 5 kill sorties with 50´s without problem and u are saying u cant kill with the 20mms?

Cc just that. Maybe I'll get the P51 out from the hangar again...cuz Mg151 is **REALLY** Pissing me off

[Maniac]

Will fly the 190 tonite (if i dont end up in some bar after work) and see how it goes.



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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-


   
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[Vermillion]

Guys, I emphasized that I wasn't complaining about the .50's.  They feel about right in this version.

My point is that the 190 guns are much more lethal and its all a matter of perspective.

 

They are really nice weapons,IMHO, for a plane like P51. Not so in a F4U, and in a Fw190 they wont be that good either. Why? because Fw190,and in a less extent,F4U,live for and because the snapshot

Come on RAM   I really hope your not starting to believe your own propaganda. The P-51, Fw190, and the F4U all fly in the same manner, and should be flown with the same style.

If anything, the superior roll rate of the 190 gives it more opportunities for shots than you get with the P-51.

Don't be trying to convince me that the 190 needs some special "dispensation from the gods" (ie advantage) for some reason.  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[StSanta]

Well, it has some drawbacks compared to say the '51 as well, so I am glad it packs a better punch  

I heard Saintaw say that the Hog's are more nimble than the 190. Scary thought. At high speeds, I find the 190 to have plenty of turning power if you're willing to bleed E. Is it low speed handling the hog does better?

I also take it that the Hog has a much superior supercharger, as the 190 climbs like a pregnant hippo above 20k, and I always meet Hogs who have a 2-5k advantage on me . 1.4k/m WAAAH!

Heh, not whining though; I love my little baby 190  . It's sleak, sharklike, cute, cuddly Yellow And Furry (according to my personal god Nirfur God Of All Things Yellow And Furry And The Great Abritrator Who Decides What Is Yellow And Furry, for whom I am a prophet) and overall just a damned nice aircraft.



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StSanta
II/JG2

[Minotaur]

Does Fishu still play AH?  

I miss his comments...  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Baddawg]

Well just a couple of thoughts here.
I was having a horrible time in the 109 and 190 with any type of deflection shots and head ons for that matter.
 After an evaluation of my convergence settings i found i had them incorrect cannon at 325  and mg at 425 Doh!
 All my 13mm mg rounds were hitting but my  cannon was missing! I felt like the assist king of AH
 Now i find myself getting 4-5 kill sorties in a 109.
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I was wondering if in the TRAINING ARENA you could make the hit sprites(if thats what they are called) of cannon rounds a different color?This would sure help in  deflection shooting with  the slower velocity cannon rounds.

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 Im sure that  a lot of us over estimate the amount of cannon rounds that actually hit unless we are firing cannon rounds only . Which i do do on occasion  but in the main arena i do less of.
 When firing cannon only i have found  I put the bead on and fire, only to find I need to adjust, and the adjustment feels alot more prononced then when firing with my 13mm MG 131.

I have used both the 30mm and 20mm cannon and have seen  very random results.
 One time in the training arena Kieren was droning for me. I had the luxury of  saddling up on his 202 and firing ONLY 30mm
cannon at his wing from a distance of 275.
 Much to my surprise 3 hits  on his right wing  and nada ? Ok 2 more then kaboom!
 "Kieren did you feel those first  3 cannon hits?"
"Yup i sure did"
hmmmmmmmm

 Trying it again but this time  i had the top of his wing visable  firing cannon only 1 hit kaboom! Toast

It seems there is some randomness involved . Now if its by design or not I do not know.
But i know i like that  

As for tank busting the 20mm of the  F4U-1C
seem far superior to even the 30mm of the GAF. Or maybe its just me i have trouble killing tanks  


[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 05-09-2000).]