HispanosVsMausers

[-lazs-]

Took u a long time to say it but it "feels" like you are saying that you "feel" the guns are off and that you "feel" that most people agree with you.   U say that 2 HS gunsets are fine but 4 HS gunsets are somehow more than twice as powerful?   How can this be?   Look, I flew 6 fifty powered planes and cannon planes both and me and a couple of squaddies felt they were very weak.   We felt outgunned big time and really racked up the assists.  Switched to cannon planes and rack up the kills again.  6 fifties should be devestating in close ,equal to or better than the Spit nine in firepower.   What is your "feel" for the fifty cal equipped birds?

Anyway... The offer still stands.  Test with me in the arena and let's see what is really going on.  
lazs

[Pongo]

What you think the 50 is weaker than cannons..You may be onto something there.
The only thing im likly to be testing anytime soon is your patience. But like I said fill your boots.

[-lazs-]

Pongo... after reading a lot of your posts in this and other threads, I can see why you wouldn't want to test anything.
lazs

[Pongo]

Glad you have worked that out then...
I flew the 6 gun FW for the firs time in a long time yesterday. I will admit that the addition of 2 unsycronized 151s adds alot of wollop to the the plane. I got some kills that felt almost like a 1c.  I guess back when I wrote them off as not worth the weight I was shooting at about 5%. At 10% the extra weight of fire seems to be more useful.
Then I flew a 1c and got a 870 yrd snap shot kill on another 1c... put my 151s right back in their place.

[NUTTZ]

TEST

[NUTTZ]

WHEN i fly the 190, 1 ping always kills my engine,,,, i find the 20mm does more damage than the 30mm's,,,, Niki's 20mm are just fine with me,,,,,f4-c's ammo is very very lethal,,,,i can't buy a kill with pony's 50's,,,,these are my observations..... Now bring on the KI !!!!

[Hooligan]

Pongo:

It sounds like you are now saying that 4xMg151 hits close to as hard as 4xHispano.  Has ballistics and time-of-flight suddenly become the problem?

Hooligan

[Pongo]

I dont know if it hits as hard Hooligan. I dont think it does. You may or may not have noticed that I have no trouble killing with a 2 gun FW. I was never saying there was anything the matter with the 2 gun FW. But kills with and by the HS still feel wrong to me from both sides.  I was just pointing out that flying the 4 cannon FW for the first time in a long time. It hits real hard.. I shot down 4 fighters (starting from advantage but not vulch) and still had 550 rds of 20mm left. More then enought to kill a buff after I ran out of gas.  No supprise to anyone here that a loaded FW hits hard. I was a bit suprised flying it after after 5 months that it hit so nice. The death range in front of a FW is still only 600 yards for fighters(and that is a long shot). The Death range in front of a 1c is still 900-1100
Still doenst feel right.. But my ingame testing contiues.....
I am willing to learn. As are many here.

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by Hooligan:
Penetration, Kinetic Energy, explosive content and incendiary content are all important.  The Hispano is superior to the Mg151 in all these respects except when comparing explosive content of 1/3 of the 151 rounds (Mine rounds) to HS HE rounds (11.2g vs 18.6g).  Seems a bit of a stretch to me to assume that this 7g of explosive in 1/3 of the rounds is going to make up for the big differences in KE and penetration, not to mention the greater amounts of HE and incendiary compound in Hispano HE/I and AP/I rounds.  You seem awfully hung up on the fact that both of these weapons are 20mm and should thus be approximately equal.  A glance at the relative shell sizes would make any rational person suspect that the Hispano was a significantly more effective round.

Hooligan

thank you hooligan. I am a 2W071--or a munitions troop if you will in the USAF--have been for 12 years. I am also an avid reloader of high powered rifle ammo. I have searched for then explosive data for the german ammo and the hispanos and havent been able to find it. Whered you get it?

He is exactly on the money--in the relatively  small caliber ammunition explosive content plays a secondary roll in its destructive power. A projectiles Kinetic energy and its exterior and terminal ballistics are its primary factor in determining its destructive force. The german ammo was very good, but the Hispanos were higher velocity and ballistic coefficient of the projectile were better.

comparing the both would be like comparing 30 caliber carbine to 30-06 springfield or even 30 caliber weatherby magnum. Or for another example--45 caliber ACP to 458 winchester magnum. Now although the caliber of these examples are exactly the same caliber the difference in performance is extreme. 45 acp will do well with 240 grain projectile to get 900 fps, while the 458 WinMag with a 510 grain projectile will do 2200 fps.

[Hooligan]

Ammo:

I have a good bit of information on the .50 BMG that I gathered myself from various locations:  (the WEB, declassified US army airforce and Navy documents).  I also have a good bit of info on German guns that -ireg- and Gerzzz got from Rechlin and Mauser.  My information on Hispanos is comparatively sparse, but a book is coming out soon that should have a lot of useful information.

 http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/

I got the HE content of the HS HE/I shell from Vermillion.

Do you want me to send you some scans of German round data?

Hooligan

[-ammo-]

yes please Hooligan--TY

saved4sure@esn.net

[Pyro]

Come to the con and I'll show you some cool stuff.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Pongo]

"comparing the both would be like comparing 30 caliber carbine to 30-06 springfield or even 30 caliber weatherby magnum. Or for another example--45 caliber ACP to 458 winchester magnum. Now although the caliber of these examples are exactly the same caliber the difference in performance is extreme. 45 acp will do well with 240 grain projectile to get 900 fps, while the 458 WinMag with a 510 grain projectile will do 2200 fps.
"
Man are statements like that stupid.

The only thing more useless then paroting the velocity of the HS round is trying to draw some lame connection to your favorite hand loads as if that has more importance to discussion then the operational capabililities or the HS that were recorded in WW2. The hand loaders guide to cannon design.
What a crock.

Those WW2 gun debate pages give the hispano a 15% higher Q factor then the 151...That sounds more reasonable to me.(oh ya. Im not a reasonable person)

[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 05-16-2000).]

[Vermillion]

Pongo, go back and read the definition of what the "Q Factor" is, its not applicable in the way you are applying it.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Pongo]

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