Author Topic: You guys just don't get it  (Read 3528 times)

Offline Redd

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2004, 01:55:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't think it's a BnZ vs. TnB thing.  Most turnfighters understand that faster, more poorly turning planes shouldn't and won't turnfight.  I see many of the complaints here concern aggression vs. nonaggression.

It's a mistake to think that BnZ necessarily requires flying boringly or unaggressively.

-- Todd/Leviathn



Exactly Lev

And the difference is , you can have a really fun fight against a faster plane if you are in the slow plane  - even if you perhaps lose in the end ......or you can have a really boring 10 minutes of attempted HO's and extensions that make you want to just log off , lie down and sleep.


Because I fly a middle of the road plane ( F6-F) , I see that cut both ways and try not to be too boring when I'm in E-fighting mode.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 02:02:32 AM by Redd »
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Offline mechanic

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« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2004, 03:03:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DipStick
That's what I'm talkin' about. These guys that come in at 400+ and extend to 5-6k, rinse and repeat are just clueless.

Although I still think b-n-z takes very little skill. That's why noobs fly Pee51s and run90s and fly so timid. :p

( That should start the ball rolling Bat! ;) )


hehehe - first one to drop an F-bomb or personally insult someones mother gets a free lesson in LA-7 ACM!



as far the question of how am i helping noobs, Redtop and myself have recently started a squad of spitfires and wee all fly the mk5 model or seafire if from a carrier. we do regular DA and TA sessions to improve our squaddies ACM (yes, believe it or not, ACM plays a large part in decent spit flying too) and most importantly in SA. We teach them not to HO and not to die ungracefully. we make sure they respect their squad, their enemies and most of all, their beautifull aircraft, the Spitfire mkV.

If i ever see a noob asking questions on ch200 or country, then i help to the best of my limited ability. I have even been known to take a total stranger form the MA to the DA and help him for whatever time he needs on the odd occasion.

This doesnt make me a saint, i dont expect thanks or appraisal from anyone here, the good deed in itself makes me feel good enough to do it again next time someone needs help.

just like helping an old lady cross the road or even simple politeness like holding a door for someone instead of letting it slam in their face.

these things are not special, they should be done naturally by anyone who isnt a total arse.

I think the real problem here is that these whiners get killed too often by 'dweeb' rides becuase they expect each one to be manned by a 'dweeb', when they find a spit/la/nik that has a decent pilot and they cant just BnZ them in one pass and they get reversed on and killed, they claim thats it was only the 'dweeb' plane that made the other pilot kill them, not that the pilot was infact a skilled advesary.

ok. enough.

good night

bat
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 03:07:55 AM by mechanic »
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Offline DipStick

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2004, 04:01:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
hehehe - first one to drop an F-bomb or personally insult someones mother gets a free lesson in LA-7 ACM!

LMAO!

as far the question of how am i helping noobs, Redtop and myself have recently started a squad of spitfires and wee all fly the mk5 model or seafire if from a carrier. we do regular DA and TA sessions to improve our squaddies ACM (yes, believe it or not, ACM plays a large part in decent spit flying too) and most importantly in SA. We teach them not to HO and not to die ungracefully. Had me ready to signup till here. :lol  we make sure they respect their squad, their enemies and most of all, their beautifull aircraft, the Spitfire mkV.

If i ever see a noob asking questions on ch200 or country, then i help to the best of my limited ability. I have even been known to take a total stranger form the MA to the DA and help him for whatever time he needs on the odd occasion.

Been there, done that.

This doesnt make me a saint, i dont expect thanks or appraisal from anyone here, the good deed in itself makes me feel good enough to do it again next time someone needs help.

Agreed.

just like helping an old lady cross the road or even simple politeness like holding a door for someone instead of letting it slam in their face.

these things are not special, they should be done naturally by anyone who isnt a total arse.

:lol

I think the real problem here is that these whiners get killed too often by 'dweeb' rides becuase they expect each one to be manned by a 'dweeb', when they find a spit/la/nik that has a decent pilot and they cant just BnZ them in one pass and they get reversed on and killed, they claim thats it was only the 'dweeb' plane that made the other pilot kill them, not that the pilot was infact a skilled advesary.

ok. enough.

good night

bat


Can remember fighting you , Tmast, some of the shills and others way back when AW was on AOL. Man times have changed but sometimes the fun is still there if only for a moment.

Offline 33Vortex

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2004, 05:05:14 AM »
Good topic and interesting discussion, I'll add some to it if you don't mind. :)
I flew against a P51 at high alt, merged after minutes of trying to get the better position but he maintained alt and speed on me (this was around 18-20k) so it was difficult and I knew I wouldn't be able to disengage from this guy. However he came at me head on at one time, angled a little to my left but remained flying in a straight line so of course I took the shot I knew had a good chance of hitting and hit the cockpit/wing root area. I was in a 190D-9, my fav ride. He comes around again and do the same thing, this time more aggressive and try to hit me, misses and I take his wing off with a few 20 mm.

What response do I get? He message me: "It must really suck to have no piloting skills."

Right... :rolleyes:

This is the kind of attitude I (and many others I hope) don't want to see in the game. If you can't take getting shot down you shouldn't play because it's part of the game.


I agree with what 4aces posted about this game being about advantage. It's about knowing when to fight and when to avoid the fight. If I'm in a 190 at 15k and see a 51 at 20k I know I'm in for a tough fight if that pilot has any talent/skill at all and knows how to shoot. Lucky for me not all 51 pilots know how to shoot. :) However you can usually tell within seconds wheter an opponent is a good stick.

I'm pretty new in AH, flew Fighter Ace for years, since 97 I believe. Everything I've learned about ACM is what I've picked up myself and from books I've read. And I'll tell you something... in FA it took me well over 200 deaths to get my first kill. I was vulched, strafed, jumped, sneaked up on and HOed for what seemed like forever, but being the fanatic flying enthusiast I am I just wouldn't give up. I flew without a squad for about a year, basically taught myself and learned from experience.
Eventually gave up on FA because they changed the game and physics too much for my liking, stumbled across AH and loved it.

Today I consider myself being a good stick, but I want to learn more (who doesn't). I favor the 190D-9 and the 109G-10, for the hitting power and the 109 also for it's excellent climb rate.
When fighting I use the vertical whenever I can, the 190D-9 is very good in the vertical, and when angle fighting in the 190 I'm accused of being a HO dweeb from time to time by some certain ppl.

Of course I get owned by Spit's, La5/7's, N1K's and whoever can catch me low and slow. The 190 is an easy target when slow, more so than other planes because it's poor turn rate.

Anyway... I know my B&Z tactics well, what I want to know more about is pure dogfighting, turnfighting, anyone with enough skill and confidence in that area who'd like to teach me some moves please contact me ingame or pm me here on the boards.

One thing I've learned during all my online flying: No matter how good you are, or how good you think you are, there will always be someone better than you. There will always be someone that find a way to take you down, or get the opportunity to do so because of circumstances beyond your control. You will never be safe, play the game to kill and get killed.

See you in the skies, I fly more than read the forums.

=S=
« Last Edit: July 22, 2004, 05:15:38 AM by 33Vortex »

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Offline Redd

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2004, 06:58:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 33Vortex

Anyway... I know my B&Z tactics well, what I want to know more about is pure dogfighting, turnfighting, anyone with enough skill and confidence in that area who'd like to teach me some moves please contact me ingame or pm me here on the boards.



=S=



Some things I think are good to do

Do some FFA in the DA , some of the guys in there are good to fight against. Fight some duels with the guys that are better than you (not the ones you can beat anyway)

Film the fights  -  ask them what they did when they shoot you down. If you can, ask them to film the fight and send it to you

Fly an all-rounder plane in the arena sometimes ie one that can E-fight and TnB  eg 109G F6-F Spit9 .  E-fight the slower planes and TnB the other "all-rounders" and the faster planes.

Spend some tours not caring about getting killed - get in as many close fights as you can. Fight against planes you might normally "extend" from. Don't look at your score.

Imho TnB skills are a better foundation for E-Fighting than BNZ skills. If you are just doing BnZzzzzz all day you won't have the skills to get down and dirty when you need to.


Have fun !
I come from a land downunder

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2004, 09:05:44 AM »
it's actually gotten a little worse than all that... Now it seems that the fast late war planes do not only fly in a nonagressive manner but... they look for furballs to B & Z rather than to fight each other...  Makes sense but... if they are claiming that it takes skill to fly those planes then why don't they fight others of their kind..

plus... they don't even show any agressiveness at all if they percieve that they might endanger themselves... they wait for a "missuz" and come in with the horde and hope that they can get a few sissy kicks in before the field gets shut down... 190's and 51's are the worst for this..

lazs

Offline Zippatuh

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2004, 09:08:14 AM »
Hello… My name is Zippatuh and I fly the P51D because I suck.

I will never get any better, I will never engage a 1v1 or 1v2, I will run any chance I get.

I actually hate the P51 but am depressed that I am unable and unskilled in any other aircraft.

Is there a pill I can take?

Offline jaxxo

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2004, 10:39:04 AM »
lolol.

Offline jaxxo

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2004, 12:31:55 PM »
I tell ya what, good luck getting a coalt 190, 109, pony, or p47 to fight. They make one weak arse pass (ho usually) and run like hell. I used to have fun takin a spit9 to 15 or 20k to fight a few but no one is interested in taking a risk of getting killed anymore..unless they have help coming ...than its straight to to the backup. Is this the new "style" from younger gamers pushing out the old honor and skill style of us vets? I mean how many times can ya dive vulch extend and repeat before it gets old?

Offline phookat

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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2004, 12:35:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by jaxxo
I tell ya what, good luck getting a coalt 190, 109, pony, or p47 to fight.


Find the one that doesn't belong.

Offline Badfish1

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You guys just don't get it
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2004, 01:25:08 PM »
I am new to AH and have been trying many planes, so-called dweeb planes as well as others. IMO there seems to be a bigger problem than what planes people fly. In only two short weeks in the MA I have noticed that there are only 2 countries. It's the Knight-Rooks against the Bishps everytime I log on. Now THAT qualifies as DWEEBISM more than any plane choice. Flame away....

Offline simshell

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« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2004, 01:31:04 PM »
just for fun i ask these great flyers to get 2 air to air kills or more in a P40B and take a screenshot and post it in here

:p
known as Arctic in the main

Offline phookat

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« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2004, 01:53:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Badfish1
I am new to AH and have been trying many planes, so-called dweeb planes as well as others. IMO there seems to be a bigger problem than what planes people fly. In only two short weeks in the MA I have noticed that there are only 2 countries. It's the Knight-Rooks against the Bishps everytime I log on. Now THAT qualifies as DWEEBISM more than any plane choice. Flame away....


Everyone thinks they're the persecuted ones. ;)  Don't whine, just fly.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2004, 02:00:55 PM »
Does a couple in an Ar234 count? :P

I got a 109 too, but the luck SOB did a dead-stick landing on a nearby island.



P.S. Yes I've gotten several kills a sortie in the P40B. Just no pics of it

Offline 33Vortex

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« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2004, 06:11:12 PM »
Thanks for the tips Redd, I'm looking for advanced turnfighting tactics, more than just the high/low yo-yo and corkscrew stuff. Advanced ACM in both the horizontal and vertical plane. Are there any good online sources available where ACM is illustrated.?

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