You guys just don't get it

[Misfit]

Beetle,
I dunno where you got your info from about the 190A8 in AWer, But i was never able to flat turn with a spit in my A8. The "E" model in AWer was very different and i believe us A8 pilots suffered the most in transition.

[lazs2]

phoocat.. What kind of gameplay is it to fly a late war plane high into a furball that is 50 mph slower and then B & Z the planes that are engaged in a fight?  Dodging fast planes while engaged with fighters is not good gameplay.   Having a bunch of pee 51's and doras and gee 10s circling a capped field is not good gameplay..

Even.... grabbing a tempest and running these guys down is not good gameplay... they die like they have never actually had anyone on their 6 who could catch em.... oh wait...  no challenge... no gameplay.

I still believe that there is room for an early war only area within the maps.

lazs

[J_A_B]

For those of you who think that the "dweeb rides" give an automatic advantage....

Go fly one on the deck in a furball sometime--low and slow.   You'll soon find that, if anything, it's the earlier planes that have an advantage in this sort of situation.  I'm not kidding when I say I'd get at least 50% more kills if I flew a Spit 5 instead of a P-51.  I mean--come on guys--it's no secret that all the really high K/T guys fly nimble planes that are actually good at close-in fighting.  I can't count the numer of times that my guns just didn't quite do enough damage, or I just couldn't get the nose around fast enough, and missed out as a result.  Yeah...if you like to fly at 20K and attack the occasional AFKer, or pork bases....the P-51 is good.  But honestly--in a low altitude furball it's a piece of junk.  About its only saving grace is I don't need to worry about the fuel guage too much.

Why do I fly it then?   Because that's what I flew in AW...it has sentimental value.   If I was going to pick something that is actually GOOD I'd probably be in an N1K or Spit 5.  Those can do maneuvers and survive situations that I can only deam of in the P-51.  



Not to mention there's still the fact that a slow plane like a Spit 5 or a 109F is just as capable of BnZing stuff in a furball as the faster planes are.  Indeed, they're arguably more effective for it.


Basically what I'm saying is that the slower planes hold their own perfectly fine; thanks for listening.

J_A_B

[lazs2]

jab... no... mostly you can't get high K/T in the fast late war planes and mostly you can't get low and slow in a big furball and expect to live... but...

Who does that?   Not many.  It is stupid in any case.

So what I get is that you are basicly complaining that you are invulnerable to the slow planes but it all evens out because even tho you can kill them with impunity you can't do it very fast without taking risks?

lazs

[Edbert]

Helping noobs:
It is a good idea for all the reasons mentioned but the question like "how do I takeoff"and "what key shoots my gun" get pretty irritating sometimes.

Whining about other players choice of aircraft:
This always boils down to an argument where the fatser plane says quit breaking sho sharply and the slower plane says quit running. If you are in La7/P51/190D there's no reason to extend beyond 1.5-2.0 if you are giving battle unless you are planning on disengaging. But there's also no point in the Spit driver calling the Dora driver a weenie or a dweeb becasue he wont stall-fight you. I always liked the RPS, it gave better matchups in my opinion, but I am in a very small minority with that opinion.

Flying for fun:
When I fly the pee51 I really enjoy blowing a speed or alt advantage and doing some T&B with a more agile oponent. I can almost see the suprise on the oponent's face whenever I do, and it often results in a victory (probably beacuse he is in shock). The problem is with the crowds I usually wont make it back home after doing so. There always seems to be 8-12 much higher enemies show up whenever I do get low and slow. I always looked forward to the small maps entering the rotation because I got bored trying to find fights on the big ones. If my squad ever intercepted a raid they'd just re-up elsewhere and continue their milkruns. But I am starting to agree with Beetle, the incessant 30v40 that we have now is getting old too.

[phookat]

Originally posted by lazs2
phoocat.. What kind of gameplay is it to fly a late war plane high into a furball that is 50 mph slower and then B & Z the planes that are engaged in a fight?

Let em fly how they want...

Originally posted by lazs2
Dodging fast planes while engaged with fighters is not good gameplay.

Sure it is.  Adds a challenge.  Especially for those who fly late war planes in a furball, they can't dodge the BnZers as easily as an early war plane.

Originally posted by lazs2
Having a bunch of pee 51's and doras and gee 10s circling a capped field is not good gameplay..

Yeah hordes suck, but hordes will be hordes regardless of early or late war.

[J_A_B]

"Who does that? Not many. It is stupid in any case. "

Stupid huh?  No stupider than, say, someone who picks an F6F when there's the N1K2 that out-everythings it available  

"So what I get is that you are basicly complaining that you are invulnerable to the slow planes but it all evens out because even tho you can kill them with impunity you can't do it very fast without taking risks? "

Invulnerable?  LOL!   Why?   Because it can run?  

By your same flawed logic a Spit 5 is invulnerable to a P-51 because it can dodge the P-51's attacks indefinately with maneuvers that the Mustang can't hope to follow.  And that is how it frequently plays out in the arena--alone, a Spit 5 against P-51 will commonly result in a draw with neither plane able to kill the other.

The difference is that the guy in the nimble plane will be making a jerk out of himself on channel 200 yelling "come back here you wussy runner"......while I can't remember ever seeing somebody telling the Spit guy to quit maneuvering.  

I see it as balanced, at least in the case of the P-51.  I am NOT talking about things like the 190D-9 or LA7--both of which are generally superior to the Mustang IMO.  I don't fly either enough to really comment on how balanced they are for the MA ( heck I don't think I've EVER flown an LA7 online).

Take the snide undertones out of your post and I can see that even you know the balance inherent in the situation, although both of us know that there'd be no harm in having an area designated specifically for extremely early models which have no chance in the MA.   Being slow by itself isn't the problem that people seem to protray it as.  Nobody calls the N1K2 "underpowered".  Being slow with no firepower and bad E-bleed....now there's a problem.

On and tell me why you seem to think that Spits and N1k's and such never BnZ slower planes in furballs either.  Heck a BnZing Spit might be the most deadly plane in the game.


J_A_B

[Zippatuh]

I don’t think you all understand here…

It can’t be that someone would want to fly the P51 because they like it admire it, have a warm place for it.  They only fly it because they are unskilled and unable to fly anything else.  I think that’s the premises for the argument.

Just smile and nod and say “yup, you’re right”.

Maybe one of these days I’ll get up from the kids table then fly and fight the way I’m supposed to.  One day just maybe; hell, we can all dream to be more than what we are.

Just confess that you’re unskilled and unable.  I have and it feels like a heavy weight has been lifted off of me somehow.  Refreshing I tell ya.

[Wadke]

"FEAR THE P-40!!!"

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by Wadke
"FEAR THE P-40!!!"

Wadke...that ranks right up there with ones like "FEAR THE GUMMI BEARS!!!" .

[Wadke]

mmm GUMMI BEARS

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by Wadke
mmm GUMMI BEARS

yer makin' skin crawl!!!!!

[Simaril]

Ok, wadke, what's the scoop ---

You've got gummi bears in a retort with stoppered flask. Is this photo from some kind of warped experiment? Are we torturing cutsie candies? Do we have a imprisonment fetish? Are we calculating the caloric density of high carb foods? What the heck were you doing?????

[Misfit]

nevermind not worth it

[KurtVW]

Ah the endless debate that won't ever die..

[Rant=on]
Fact is there are two schools of fighting... Turn&burn, and boom&zoom.

Those who fly one always call the others dweebs.  

There simply is NO always correct way.  Every interview I've ever seen with a WWII pilot from any country was that they always tried to be high, and they always tried to scream down, get the snap shot an then get the heck out of Dodge before the bogie's buddies showed up!

The belief that we are supposed to hang around and die is ridiculous.

I fly both modes, And I get yelled at no matter what... "Look at Kurt in his FW-run190... Run kurt run..."..  OR "Look at the spit dweeb"

You can't win this discussion.


Yeah, forget that I am running because I am hauling home kills and maybe don't care to tangle with you if I can avoid it... Or maybe out of Bullets, gas, BOTH or have a pilot wound...

You must simply realize this... There are no UBER planes.. There are only UBER pilots (no, I'm not one of them and I'm not trying to lead you to believe that I am).  I have shot down some really great pilots in some really UBER rides, and I have had my UBER ride shot out from under me more times than I can count.

Even the mighty 262 is just gravy in the hands of an imbicile...  Heck, I shot one down from a Zeek one time!  Talk about your sad ways to lose 250 perks!

The only UBER vehicle in the game is the Tiger tank.  All the rest require skill to master, and skill to kill.

Learn to apply the appropriate methods at the appropriate times and lets stop crying.

[/rant]