hoe'ers

[33Vortex]

Originally posted by phookat
Indeed, stick stirring.  Pretty pathetic to watch, is it not?  Makes you kinda wish the guy had the guts to die like a man.  Cause of course he's gonna die anyway, once he's bled enough E.

I've seen quite a bit of this lately.  Oh well.  Easy kill.

I've survived many times by "jinking" maneuvers, avoiding getting hit, or at least avoiding getting hit critically. A few times I've been chased across sectors that way, on the deck... all I can say is the guy must be a poor shot, and I'm lucky.

It may be fun to watch but it can still be effective.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by 33Vortex
I've survived many times by "jinking" maneuvers, avoiding getting hit, or at least avoiding getting hit critically. A few times I've been chased across sectors that way, on the deck... all I can say is the guy must be a poor shot, and I'm lucky.

It may be fun to watch but it can still be effective.

Its an easy kill. Used to confuse me at first till I figured it out.
I used to do what most people do I imagine, and that is to fire where tyou think the plane is going to go.
No
Watch that jink twist spin flipflop move, look for and ain at the center of its axis.
Open fire you see parts fly off almost every time.
Usually is enough to either kill em or get em to try something different

[simshell]

what bothers me about that move is that the guy is spining so fast that he starts Warping everware

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by SlapShot
No ... its called "stick stirrin'" and seems to be one of the most favorite moves of those planes that have fast roll rates. Combine that with the "dolphin" move and you are witness to one of the most unbelieveable human endurance spectacles on earth.

As others have pointed out, 98% of the time these so-called moves are fruitless and lead to bleeding of E and eventually death ...

I was giving the word "JINK  or GUN JINK" for what 33Vortex was explaining see below:

Originally posted by 33Vortex
There are some good techniques to make it difficult for whoever is on your six to hit you. Of course all maneuvering drains E to some extent, and it can bring the opponent even closer in on your six. However, what this maneuvering does is buy you time, time so that your buddies can get on his six and eliminate him.

StickStirring is not a good technique, it is ole god I am gonna die I got to yank my stick all over flying.........

all be it you and I come from different ideas of what things are called........

Originally posted by SlapShot
Somehow, I would like to see if HT can decipher these extra-ordinary moves and engage the "don't move the controls so rapidly" message.

from all the complaints I have seen on txt buffer and heard in game, thought this was already addressed some, seems alot of people been getting that message.

btw, 33Vortex was explaining good techniques in regards to the stickstirring reply he quoted,  You are right slapshot about  alot of stick stirring going lately, just to clear it up so we all on the same page.

bad defensive maneuvering = stick stirring
good defensive maneuvering = scissors, rolling scissors, break turns, Jinks, Gun Jinks

anyhow, all defensive situations requiring the above mentioned maneuvering is bad place to be to start with:)

[Zippatuh]

Originally posted by Ghosth
You seeing the general drift here devil???

Start dinving under their nose when they are 3k away.

Time your roll so that when they are 300 out your 3/4 through, showing them a ducking, moving knife edge.  It also sets you up for that immelman after.

Low E loss zoom will 9 times out of 10 put you above them on & in a position to go nose down, & roll onto their 6.

After that its all easy.

BTW don't confuse a front quarter shot in a manuver fight with a HO where you start 5k away, level & fast.

2 different birds entirely.

Was going to post something but this is it right here... no need to read the rest.

Nose down and roll when in close.  Suckers them into the HO and gives you an alt and e-advantage by the time they turn.  You might even get lucky and rope them on the up and over; as they go for the next HO.

[twitchy]

If anybody has any films of manuvers to avoid a HO, I would love to see them!

[FT_Animal]

Originally posted by twitchy
If anybody has any films of manuvers to avoid a HO, I would love to see them!

I have some going up VERY soon.

But try this,....
Everyone mentions the nose under, but never really finish the ACM text.

I do 1 of 3 things depending. Granted, this worked alittle better in AW because the HO hit bubble was smaller, but still, this should help.

Keep your your nose right on him, as if playing chicken. JUST before you come into gun range nose down, not a lot but you want to go well under him, don't worry about where he's going yet.  As you pass under you are now in a blind spot, he has NO idea exactly what you are doing. I usually slightly nose down at about 1,200 dist. Also at this point your E is building, his isn't if he doesn't nose down too.

As you go under him\her watch the bottum of their plane, because what you want to do is yank that stick up just as the tail passes over you. You want to come up REAL fast and just missing the tail. That building of E you got from nosing down comes in handy right now, because now you are faster then him. The most he MAY see of you is if he rear views, and all he's MAY see is you shoot straight up behind him, most of the time they never see this happen. When you just miss the tail you know your timing is OK, key factor.

NOW you are above him, keep pulling the stick back until you become inverted over him. He's may try to nose down for E, if not he's yours that much quicker. You're going to see that you are now way above him, inverted and looking down on him like a vulcher.

While inverted, you look up, which is actually down at him. Now, no matter what he does you see where he's going and you roll back up-right in his direction, now you're on his 6. Even if he trys to roll out, you can still park your nose on his 6. Sometimes you'll pull this off inverted.

You must do all of this VERY quickly as to retain the E you got during nose down.

Now that you are above him and roll onto his 6 you are nose down again, and building more E on top of what you already have. You'll close in on him pretty quickly.

Retainging the E from the first build until the next build is essential

basically you're going to sissor him for HOing you. ;-)

PRACTICE this move until timing is perfected. You will not believe how many HOs become honest kills using this method.

And yes, I have pulled this off in AH before.

Another that I would call an escape is to barrel roll out just before in range, roll under him and shoot off to a side. Don't give the punk the satifaction of the HO.

[FT_Animal]

Actually, once you come up behind him it becomes more of a Split-S type maneuver. I miss spoke.

;-)

[phookat]

Originally posted by kevykev56
Your look at the situation I am trying to explain is correct. It is a failure on the pilots part if you allow your E to drop to a point at wich you cant avoid the HO. This is my explanation of why it seems unavoidable. The AC you are engaged with has a high acceleration generating E quicker than your plane therfore has the ability to kill you on a HO when you are desperatly trying to avoid it. Doesnt necessarily mean however that you cant get your guns up on him.

I agree.  But I think the word "unavoidable" to some folks has the connotation of "undeservedly unavoidable".  Just pointing out that there is a "deservedly unavoidable" as well.

Originally posted by kevykev56
This is and was a learning experience for me. I am just explaining how I avoid the HO. Its all about keeping your E high when in with an AC that can out accelerate your plane.

True.  Speed is life, even more so in this case.

[phookat]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Its an easy kill. Used to confuse me at first till I figured it out.
I used to do what most people do I imagine, and that is to fire where tyou think the plane is going to go.
No
Watch that jink twist spin flipflop move, look for and ain at the center of its axis.
Open fire you see parts fly off almost every time.
Usually is enough to either kill em or get em to try something different

I find that the more devious stirrers modulate their stirring so as to randomly change direction, and not just orientation.  It still seems like stuff that would rip your eyeballs out IRL, but I can't say for sure.  In any case, these types require more patience--you have to let them drain E so they can't change direction so quickly.  Then they're toast.  Just takes longer.

[Panman]

HEHE painted ho,me on all the 68 planes:p

                                        Panman:cool:

[Drunky]

It takes two to HO.


There, I just wanted to mention that in case no one else had mentioned it elsewhere in this thread.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Drunky
It takes two to HO. There, I just wanted to mention that in case no one else had mentioned it elsewhere in this thread.

welllllll... it only takes one to pull the trigger.  

one should not HO if one cannot aim.

[dedalos]

Sure it takes 2 to HO when you start 4K out and line up for the shot.  Sure you can get out of it if you want to in that situation.
How do you get out of it when you have 1 or 2 reds on your 6 or if you are just trying to get ungles on one red and a second or third bad guy shows up.  He makes a turn, you  make a turn, and boom, you are facing eachother at d600 (most of the times this is a result of the fight and not intentional.  Sometimes its).  What then?  Do you try to break? You will give the angles to the other bad guy.  Do you not pull the triger and hope the other guy doesn't? (this is in the MA environment where people chase wingless wrecks to the ground trying to still a kill.  Thats a big risk to take)  Do you pull the triger and hoppe you get him before he gets you?  What if you pull the triger and he doesn't? . . .

It does not always take 2 to HO and you cannot always avoid it.  We could do without the whines when that happens though.  If I do it, it was not intentional (unless a goon is present).  We happened to line up and I really thought it was not HO or that you would pull the triger.  Appologies in advance.

[Drunky]

I was being sarcastic.