Open letter to all.

[demaw1]

AW mac...

     You were a tunnel rat?.......Your still alive.....WTG. SALUTE.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by jamusta
You are basically saying that soldiers are expendable.  

I hate to break it to ya bub... but if your military, you are expendable.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by demaw1

     I believe most upper class people,so to speak, either went into the guard or did nothing.  Bush went into the guard, [a plus]

Upper class?  We are a classless society.   You must mean wealthy or had a father who was a congressman.  Bush had both and chose to do nothing except national guard.  However, you are correct about the wealthy and sons of congressmen.  They uniformly took the easy way out.  My recollection may be faulty, but I believe one son (out of all congress critters) served in Vietnam.

Don't fault Kerry for his service.  Kerry was on a PBR boat.  Life expectancy of PBR guys was right up there with BAR guys of WW2.

curly

[Tumor]

Originally posted by AKcurly
You stated Most ,but not all democractic leaders and most, but not all liberals dispise the military.  That is inaccurate.  The military is filled with political liberals, or at least the military was in the late 60s, early 70s.



[/B]

Sorry Curly, most military liberals/Democrats I've come across over the last 18yrs usually don't say much because they are so out of place, they are few and far between now.  Time's change and unfortunately, my experience is that Democrats are just plain bad for the military, and most of us are aware of that.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Horn

You realize don't you that your next two invasions will be substantially more bloody? Iran has not suffered 10 years of economic embargo, destruction of their air force and third party active military monitoring of over half their country. They've been increasing their military since the '88 war w/ Iraq:
.

h

Neither did Iraq prior to Gulf war I.

And if memory serves correct they had the 3rd largest military at the time

then it became the 4th
5th
6th
7th....And so on

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by -dead-

Did I mention Bush? I don't believe I did. But FYI if Bush told people or gave them the impression that Iraq had WMDs when Iraq didn't, it doesn't matter a hoot what the CIA, MI6, the KGB or Nancy Reagan's astrologer told him about the WMDs - he did mislead people. What you seem to be trying to argue is that he didn't mislead people knowingly and deliberately. That's the $64,000 question, the answer to which we'll never know for certain. So that's a subjective opinion thing. But hey, he is a politician: that's already a strike against him on that count.

If Bush and the repulicans misled the people about Iraqs WMDs then so did the Democrates from Clinton on down.
BOTH sides claimed he had WMDs
BOTH sides claimed Iraq was a threat at one point or another.
The Democrates wanted to invade Iraq for exactly that reason during the Clinton era. Cinton for whatever reason chose not to.
the ONLY Difference between the two is Bush did Something.

So let knock it off already with the "Bush Lied" rhetoric.
Because if it was/is a lie.
They BOTH lied.
Just as if WMDs are finally found then they both would have been correct.
and BOTH will be clamouring for the lions share for the credit with "I told ya so's"

[Goth]

Curly, yes, Kerry does scare me. I see him giving away more nuclear materials to nations like Korea and Iran. I don't see him being firm in protecting American interests overseas.

Medals and ribbons are interchangeable. Throwing either in a fountain, lake, river, steaming pit of molten lava equals the same thing to me.

[midnight Target]

OK, they both lied.

Only Bush sent in the troops though. Hmmmmmm. I wonder which is worse, lying and not sending in troops, or lying and sending in troops?

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Tumor
Sorry Curly, most military liberals/Democrats I've come across over the last 18yrs usually don't say much because they are so out of place, they are few and far between now.  Time's change and unfortunately, my experience is that Democrats are just plain bad for the military, and most of us are aware of that.

Do you mean bad for the military or bad for the military industrial complex?  Democrats aren't bad for the military, but they're considerably tougher on the military industrial complex.

curly

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Goth
Curly, yes, Kerry does scare me. I see him giving away more nuclear materials to nations like Korea and Iran. I don't see him being firm in protecting American interests overseas.

Medals and ribbons are interchangeable. Throwing either in a fountain, lake, river, steaming pit of molten lava equals the same thing to me.

You mean like Reagan armed Saddam?  We need less of protecting American interests overseas and more of protecting American interests at home.  We need more of treating other nations with decency and respect.

curly

[Tumor]

Originally posted by AKcurly
Do you mean bad for the military or bad for the military industrial complex?  Democrats aren't bad for the military, but they're considerably tougher on the military industrial complex.

curly

  The short of it is, they will cut funding.  Training suffers, maintenance suffers, and without a doubt, procurment of technology suffers.  Further, you also risk things like... sending troops to dangerous places and not committing to the cause (=dead troops).  Then of course there's the very real possibility of sending stuborn old bastiges like me somewhere and telling him to stick a light blue beret on his head and take orders from some commander from who knows what country.

  Been there, done that, got the T-shirt... don't want to do it again.

Tumor

[Eagler]

Originally posted by midnight Target
OK, they both lied.

Only Bush sent in the troops though. Hmmmmmm. I wonder which is worse, lying and not sending in troops, or lying and sending in troops?

bro
how can you lie when you base your action on what you believe is true at the time of your decision

you may be incorrect but you have not lied

and not only the US thought so but the entire would .. guess everyone was getting their rocks off "lying" about poor ole cheekbones saddam through the 90's eh?

[jamusta]

Originally posted by Tumor
I hate to break it to ya bub... but if your military, you are expendable.

If you are in the military and believe that then you were not brought through the ranks with good leadership.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Eagler
bro
how can you lie when you base your action on what you believe is true at the time of your decision

you may be incorrect but you have not lied

and not only the US thought so but the entire would .. guess everyone was getting their rocks off "lying" about poor ole cheekbones saddam through the 90's eh?

Shhhhhhhh...

Just pointing out the stupidity of the "They both lied" argument.. don't let on.

[Sceadu]

Originally posted by anonymous
you were a Sailor? when and where? what was your job?

  Sorry missed that question in all the other crap about a weasel and close-mindedness.  My apologies.

  I was a nuc MM.  Between A school and nuc school in 1979, I was stationed on the San Diego (AFS-6) for a med cruise.  I lost part of my hand in a losing argument with the reduction gear in shaft alley during sea detail coming out of Naples, and had the mangled portion amputated in the Navy hospital there after being flown back to Naples on one of the ship's two choppers.  I finished nuc school, as an MM2; but ended up taking a medical discharge prior to shipping out for prototype school when it became obvious I was going to spend my intended career riding a desk rather than keeping a sub's power plant functioning.  There's not a lot of call for a machinist mate, especially a nuc, who can't hold tools.