so, you helped huh? (Warsaw Uprising)

[bikekil]

If you have a while, read this:
http://www.warsawuprising.com/

then, here is something that happened now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3941897.stm

so... like in 1939 our allies could not help us better? I mean.. imagine you being one of those brave men, fighting there to realise that after all you are the only ones who care?
then you wait 60 long years and you are hunted by our "Red Friends" as being in the AK (Home Army) was seen as a crime by commies... you can not say about it as it's a crime to remember the uprising... so you waiting that 60 years to hear what? " Uh.. well.. maybe you just shoudn't do it?"

and you know what? i say,Poland doesn't need apology. What Poland needs is good memory to trust no allies.

p.s.  Big goes to the Germans. You appologised for that was many many more times that it was needed and you are still doing it. I think it's about the time to say just "we do remember".. again.

[bikekil]

oh, and if "we should put the history straight" - who broke the ENIGMA?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by bikekil
oh, and if "we should put the history straight" - who broke the ENIGMA?

Jon Bon Jovi and some black US Navy submariner, of course! Duh! Havent you seen U571?

[bikekil]

...yeah... we better use no allies...

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by bikekil
oh, and if "we should put the history straight" - who broke the ENIGMA?

The guys at Bletchly Park.  Your question should have been "Who supplied the British with their first Enigma machine.

so... like in 1939 our allies could not help us better?

Okay, how exactly did you expect them to do that, keeping in mind they only have about 27 days to do something in?

[bikekil]

in 1939 or with the uprising?

if we are talking about the uprising, if you find an answer on a question "how much our Allies" did to help", it will become clear what else could be done if there was a will to help.
To put it the other way - i believe if that was the Brits fighting there, other Brits would do everything to help them! and i'm sure they would No offence meant here, actually it something that i hope every nation should do if them people are in need. I've used Brits in the example as somethng that should inspire you

[bikekil]

if we are talking about the IX.1939 - come on... you could do ANYTHING MORE then declaring a war.
Poland were slaved by Hitler and the so called allies lived the "everyday" lifes in theyr homes. Now that's a friendship

Is there a saying "with the friends like this, who needs an enemies"?

correct me if i misstyped.

[Octavius]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Okay, how exactly did you expect them to do that, keeping in mind they only have about 27 days to do something in?

A small time frame did exist.  France/GB had a much larger capacity to wage war.  Their economy had much more depth than width (not a whole lot of bite, but an ability to weather the storm for a much longer period).  Germany had more width (stockpiled weapons/resources for quick bursts of engagements).  But that was only one reason.

As a general rule, going on the experience of the first world war, France and GB saw the attacking force would lose twice as many men/resources..  A defensive, passive stance for the allies would set the tone for the the early years of the war.  This was coupled with the sheer unwillingness to fight.  "An entire generation lost" 25~ years prior... it was still fresh in their minds.

[edit]:  oy, like bike said, 1939 or 1944?[/edit]

[GRUNHERZ]

You were expecting help from 1939 France? Come on.. They couldnt even help themslves with 8 extra months to prepare and fighting on their home soil..

Yes, 1944 was fcked up, but blame the commies for that, the allies couldnt have done much at that time.

[bikekil]

of course there is a reason behind every action (or a lack of action).

But. What do you think an Ally should be like?

Of course, maybe it's just my faith, but i believe Poland would go to was if Hitler strike France. Not becauae i'm a fool , who believe that we could hurt Hitler much.. but because i believe We could help our Ally that way.... give them aq chance.. give him more time... gived more time for the others to join. In the past, Poland risked more to help friends (aka Sobieski and Wiena an an example).
Now if it would be opposite to what i believe... i would be ashamed now and i would keep my head down... as it's a great shame to leave your friend behind.

[bikekil]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes, 1944 was fcked up, but blame the commies for that, the allies couldnt have done much at that time.

So, please tell me... WHEN was a right time when our Allies coud do ANY(fckng)THING for us? Not in 39? not in 44? not in 46 when we were sold to Soviets? Geeee... i think we should love our allies for everything the did for us...

Oh, excuse me, they let our met to fight in their armies (AKA BoB) to save them... thank you for that. that fact was a heroic act of bravery in a field of "saving the friend"

sorry for being ironic.

oh, and to be sure you know what i mean by Allies - SOVIETS WERE NOT OUR ALLIES! they've come here to slave us (and they did).
 
Oh,  and it;s nothing more then "putting a history straight".
I have no hard feelings for British, French or the Russion people (for any generation).

[GRUNHERZ]

The Soviets were not your friends, they did not come to help you or to liberate you. They came to conquer you. They did so on september 17 and they did so again on their way to berlin in 1944. So I hope that settles the russian part of it.

As far as the western allies, in august 1944 they were kind of busy in france and italy. A country called germany stood between their ground forces and warsaw.  What would you have wished they do? Bomb warsaw from 25,000 feet?

Which brings us back to the russians. They were right there. The only thing between them and Warsaw was the Vistula river and they didnt help.  They werent ur friends, they were your conquerors, just waiting for you and the germans to bleed each other so they have an easier fight with the nazis and less patriotic poles to deal with later.

[-tronski-]

Now this is getting weird....a Pole upset at the British for not dropping in the polish army to be slaughtered, but saluting the germans for being sorry for doing the slaughtering??!?!

 Tronsky

[GRUNHERZ]

I'm confused by this thread too.

Look its true the French let you down bigtime in the early weeks of September 1939. But thats the French military in 1939/40 for you, not much good to anyone at taht time.

I'm not sure what you wanted the western allies to do in the fall 44 warsaw uprising. By that time the US, UK, Free Polish, commonwealth and Free French were all fighting in France, the low countries and italy. They were engaged in fierce combat with the germans and all of germany stood between them and warsaw.

In your mind, what could have they done? What would you have wanted them to do?

[ramzey]

Originally posted by bikekil
if we are talking about the IX.1939 - come on... you could do ANYTHING MORE then declaring a war.
Poland were slaved by Hitler and the so called allies lived the "everyday" lifes in theyr homes. Now that's a friendship

Is there a saying "with the friends like this, who needs an enemies"?

correct me if i misstyped.

are you drunk?
look at first and secound war in the gulf, taking troops together take 4-5 months before any offensive action