Author Topic: Big Maps, what a joke (Read 3530 times)

mars01 · « **Reply #105 on:** August 06, 2004, 10:51:47 AM »

Yeah that is a good one wish I could take the credit Beet but that was NOPOOP's genius. I just stole it. See the the thread we missed ya lol.

Overlag · « **Reply #106 on:** August 06, 2004, 10:53:07 AM »

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Originally posted by mars01
You are arguing semantics, without considering context.

When the bases are too far apart - Meaning there are no support bases close enough to up and get to the base under attack in a timely manner - when the fighter hangers are killed or in the old system when fuel was killed etc that is attrition. If you do anything to reduce the other countries ability to fight back then you are of the attrition camp.

If you rather pummel the other country by massive head to head combat, while not killing FH, Carrier, Fuel etc then you are of the Fight it out camp. You have to push their wave back and cap their field.

Now I agree in choice and would not want to disallow people the right to drop bombs, so the only option is move the fields closer so there is a chance that you would be able to support a field that was currently out of commision due to dead FH or Vulch.

Six minutes between bases is not a timely distance. Anyone decent at base capture will have the field in 3 mins. With this being the case why would any up from another field to play the Johnny Come Lately role over and over?

i think that most of trinity is a bad example of big maps...

big maps doesnt always mean long distances, it just means more fields......

festma!

i for one would like "support" fields...where planes could up for defence (no ord, no perkplanes or something like that)

mars01 · « **Reply #107 on:** August 06, 2004, 10:54:24 AM »

I agree Overlag. I like the idea

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i for one would like "support" fields...where planes could up for defence (no ord, no perkplanes or something like that)

beet1e · « **Reply #108 on:** August 06, 2004, 10:57:00 AM »

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Originally posted by mars01
Six minutes between bases is not a timely distance. Anyone decent at base capture will have the field in 3 mins. With this being the case why would any up from another field to play the Johnny Come Lately role over and over?

My advice - take off from the base under attack - if you're as good as you claim to be you should have no trouble. I have done this where the only alternative is to lose the base. Up something that can turn well - I might choose a 109F4, for example. You might want to choose a Sissyfire.

Stay low - the horde-mongers will dive in with their lalas/runstangs. You'll get prox kills as they pork up the vulch attempt, and some of them will die killshooter deaths as they fight eachother for your scalp. Remember, you can re-up immediately if you die, whereas they will take 6 minutes to get back. What's so bad about that? Also give consideration to manning field ack or GV.

mars01 · « **Reply #109 on:** August 06, 2004, 11:41:37 AM »

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My advice - take off from the base under attack - if you're as good as you claim to be you should have no trouble. I have done this where the only alternative is to lose the base. Up something that can turn well - I might choose a 109F4, for example. You might want to choose a Sissyfire. Stay low - the horde-mongers will dive in with their lalas/runstangs. You'll get prox kills as they pork up the vulch attempt, and some of them will die killshooter deaths as they fight eachother for your scalp. Remember, you can re-up immediately if you die, whereas they will take 6 minutes to get back. What's so bad about that? Also give consideration to manning field ack or GV.

Beet we've been there done that. See all our old posts for reply.

phookat · « **Reply #110 on:** August 06, 2004, 11:49:25 AM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
My advice - take off from the base under attack - if you're as good as you claim to be you should have no trouble.

Up a field that has a horde over it, and get vultched. Great advice. Lots of fun too, for everyone concerned.

BTW, what do you think of FesterMA?

mars01 · « **Reply #111 on:** August 06, 2004, 12:04:47 PM »

I do up from vulched fields, I do enjoy the challenge but I will not keep doing it in the face of total futility.

Beetle ignores this tho, because it does not play into his excuses. We all know there is a point that upping is not an option and then we can pick up this conversation where we left off.

He hates Fester, Beetle is totally against closer airfields. He hates people coming to defend from other bases. Interlopers I think he calls them. They take away from his fun in taking undefended fields.

I think FesterMA is the model all maps should follow for base distance. It plays well for everyone involved. There are tradeoffs made for everyone. The guys that like fast paced action and shorter fights have the center, and the guys that like longer flights between action can fly on the outer ring.

I also like OZ alot too. Fester has got his finger on how to make a map very playable for everyone.

SlapShot · « **Reply #112 on:** August 06, 2004, 12:19:50 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
My advice - take off from the base under attack ...

Why ... so you and your Cherry-Perchin' ™

comrades can score potato ?

phookat · « **Reply #113 on:** August 06, 2004, 12:56:50 PM »

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Originally posted by mars01
He hates Fester, Beetle is totally against closer airfields. He hates people coming to defend from other bases. Interlopers I think he calls them. They take away from his fun in taking undefended fields.

LOL.

OK, I won't judge--some people like the undefended fields thing, no problem.

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Originally posted by mars01
I think FesterMA is the model all maps should follow for base distance. It plays well for everyone involved. There are tradeoffs made for everyone. The guys that like fast paced action and shorter fights have the center, and the guys that like longer flights between action can fly on the outer ring.

Exactly. I can't see why anyone would dislike the Fester map. Those who like far-spacing of bases (for whatever reason) have a place to play. And so do people who like close-spacing (again, for whatever reason). What's to dislike?

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Originally posted by mars01
I also like OZ alot too.

I never played this map. Is it getting "converted" or whatever for AH2?

beet1e · « **Reply #114 on:** August 06, 2004, 01:21:44 PM »

Mars01 - you don't undesrtand. If there's a horde at your base, it's worse on the small maps/close fields because the opposition uses conyeyor belt hording. With properly spaced fields as on pizza, it would take many more to keep that coveyor belt going. All you need is a bunch of friends to up with you. I know it's not easy. But if you lose your base because you couldn't be arsed to get off your butt to defend it, try thinking of a more original lament than "Waaaaah - girly milkmaids milkrunning "undefended" bases"...

mars01 · « **Reply #115 on:** August 06, 2004, 01:31:13 PM »

Beetle the hordes are irrespective of map size or base distance. Wrong Again.

Do you have hordes on small maps YES.
Do you have hordes on big maps YES.
Do you have hordes on FesterMA YES.

Again Nice try:aok

SlapShot · « **Reply #116 on:** August 06, 2004, 02:25:44 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Mars01 - you don't undesrtand. If there's a horde at your base, it's worse on the small maps/close fields because the opposition uses conyeyor belt hording. With properly spaced fields as on pizza, it would take many more to keep that coveyor belt going. All you need is a bunch of friends to up with you. I know it's not easy. But if you lose your base because you couldn't be arsed to get off your butt to defend it, try thinking of a more original lament than "Waaaaah - girly milkmaids milkrunning "undefended" bases"...

Your not completely wrong and your not completely right either.

Hordes on a map like AKDesert don't need a "conveyor belt" to sustain the attack.

It usually starts as a mission, and if successful, they then move onto the next target, all the while picking up some new guys that heard over country channel or vox that the last mission was great.

In this scenario, the horde doesn't need the "conveyor belt" to sustain it, people are upping to join with the horde from the newly captured base. Very easy - Very quick !!!

Granted, the notion of some joining the horde from near bases can happen, but not usually on AKDesert.

Now ... with the bases spread out as far as they are on AKDesert, counter-attacks to stop the horde and the horde "conveyor belt" to supply the horde with more lemmings are really not an option.

The real difference is that counter-attacks are more hampered by bases being farther apart than horde supply and growth on AKDesert.

Overlag · « **Reply #117 on:** August 06, 2004, 03:11:44 PM »

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Originally posted by mars01
I also like OZ alot too. Fester has got his finger on how to make a map very playable for everyone.

DipStick · « **Reply #118 on:** August 06, 2004, 03:40:22 PM »

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Originally posted by phookat
BTW, what do you think of FesterMA?

By far the best map yet.

beet1e · « **Reply #119 on:** August 06, 2004, 04:34:06 PM »

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Originally posted by mars01
Beetle the hordes are irrespective of map size or base distance. Wrong Again.

No. You're wrong. But that may be to do with the different times we play. If you're saying there are hordes on Pizza at USPT, I wouldn't know - way into toodle pippage time for me.

But as for baulking about upping from the base under attack in order to save it - Awwwwwww, come on Mars. You've always been on and on about how you like to fly from a disadvantage. But when it comes to saving one of your bases you baulk. Yet another example of you say one thing, and you do another.

OK, here's what I have done in the past. I admit, I don't like tarnishing k/d stats with the seemingly futile task of repelling a horde. Save one plane type for horde repulsion. I suggest 109F4 or 190A5. Every time you die won't affect the k/d in your main rides - the LA7 and Spit9.

Mars, you're still my favourite maroon, and I love you.

We must wing again - with slapshot - very soon.