Author Topic: The headon (Read 1300 times)

BlkKnit · « **Reply #45 on:** August 11, 2004, 04:58:00 PM »

ya know? There seems to be a light going off above my head.

I rarely take an HO shot anymore, but I did just moments ago in the MA (i thought I was outnumbered...but wasn't) anyway, it was desperate and I missed, so no biggie, plus it may have caused my opponent think twice about getting in front of me, dunno.

Now in the end he got me from the front, but not HO. Anyway, I was just thinkin, I read this and went...hmmmm

Quote

What I was trying to get across before, is the typical HO freak that we have here in AH, can only do that. They never seem to think about what is "beyond", after the HO attempt. Its all or nothing in their book ... that is why I stated before that 8 out of 10 times, they are dispatched within 1 to 2 turns.

In that fight I was reacting to what my opponent was doing, in no way did I ever even really try to dictate the fight. 'course, eating pizza at the same time did cause some difficulty. Being in the frame of mind i was in, I'd have taken the HO again if it presented itself, just because I was indeed "desperate".

I know in my early days here, I was always desperate, and I HO'ed ALOT! Prolly PO'ed a few old timers off. I really only got fully away from looking for the HO when I began flying the Yak. I even had a move that I thought was cool when it worked....HO with a roll, a bit of rudder to keep on target and roll all the way around the enemies cone of fire. It actually worked except when I ran into guys who were better then me. I was pretty proud when I pulled that off.......tried it again a few months ago, it seems like an impossible HO dream.

anyway, I doubt there will ever be an end to HOing, its like one of those steps to consciousness that we all must go through (AW'ers excepted). Players will use it until they find it difficult to do. Making the effort to avoid the HO, while possibly annoying for some, is actually a bit of fun for me. Or, letting him come in for the HO, and then rolling off target. Most will miss when I do that, some do not, and sometimes I misjudge it really bad. ummm, I got away from my point.......I think that if you dont like the HO, then avoiding it and making them pay (as you ace types can do...not me) will cause some reflection on their part and maybe they will begin to avoid the HO too.

Buzzz · « **Reply #46 on:** August 11, 2004, 06:27:51 PM »

Headons in fighter vs fighter were for the suicidal in the real world. They happened about as often as rammings did. It was all about self preservation. Sure, attacking a buff on it's 12 happened, but only because there were less guns forward. Air Combat was all about staying alive.

Headons have no place in a flight sim where there are no consequences for death. If Hitech does not have a way to reduce hit percentage then they need to come up with another way to impose a penalty for doing it. (The suggestion of a points penalty was a good one. Either give no points for a head on kill or better yet... take some points away. Make HO points score as negative! Yeah! That's the ticket! LOL!)

With headons the way they are now, it's a bit like playing doom with airplanes. Just point and shoot.

-Buzzz

Echo · « **Reply #47 on:** August 11, 2004, 06:54:10 PM »

Hos have never bothered me. seems i can avoid them 99% of the time. i find it helps if you treat a HO like u treat someone with alot of closure on ur six. aim to one side of him. he will turn towards u. then roll opposite get him out of synch with u and he cant pull up to track u without rolling. basically a classic flat or rolling scissors but with very little elevator input, as to not blow E. timed well u can exit the scissors maneuver and still have time to make a quick lead turn, or go vertical, or disengage as the situation demands.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #48 on:** August 11, 2004, 07:42:41 PM »

I despise HOs unless under certain conditions.

1. When you are outnumbered and actually being engaged my multiple cons at once. This is acceptable to me. You are already at a disadvantage and anything goes. When the engagement becomes even then you should be trying to gain the advantage and not just relying on your fire power alone.

2. When in a furball and a con and yourself get overwhelmed and accidentally turn both in the same direction not knowing each other are there. It has been proven that when in combat most average pilots can only maintain track on no more than 4 cons at once. And as everyone knows there is alot more than just 4 cons in one general area during most of our furballs.

3. When engaging any heavy bombers.

Each individual country and it's better pilots should be passing on their knowledge to teach the newer folks that this isn't a tactic that should be used unless absolutley necessary. By not correcting these individuals and helping them to get better, we as a whole are not doing our part to make the community a better place to fly and fight. Folks who keep using this tactic will only get to a point where the only trick in their bag is to HO when they've lost the advantage. They won't know that there is many other ways to regain the advantage instead of HOing when they feel they are beat.

If we teach them that they can fly on the edge of the envelope and still survive 75% or more of their engagements then maybe we'll see less of the HO scenarios. You can't get any better if you don't learn to fly your plane to the extreme. Through experience you'll begin to learn when you need to be cautious about a particular plane and its current capabilities for any given situation. Take chances and try and turn fight and TnBer, you will learn over time what you and your planes limitations are. Same goes with TnBers, try and see how well your TnBer plane can BnZ. Try and see what you can and can't do in both BnZ and TnB. You'll find that some rides can do both very well so long as you know your limitations.

In closing it's not the plane that HOs it is the pilots themselves. Some who should know better have the choice to go cold on a merge and work to gain the advantage. As for the newer players well some don't know and frankly are fighting to get anything they can. But if we teach them then I think they will be less apt to go to the HO and more to the ACM side. If we teach them then instead of hoping for a chance to get a kill they will have a better chance at getting the kills even with some of the vets flying in the same area. It will also come as a benefit to the vets when someday down the road they get themselves jumped they'll atleast know that can count on even some of the newer folks to help them out.

FiLtH · « **Reply #49 on:** August 11, 2004, 07:57:09 PM »

This thread started out addressing the way someone roping another doesnt do it quite as well as he should and the lower guy can nose him, allowing the headon to happen. I wasnt addressing headons in general. Those happen..everyday..with 90% of the people in here. Dont like em..rather not have it..but thats the game.

Overlag · « **Reply #50 on:** August 11, 2004, 07:57:30 PM »

im going for HO's now...avoiding them just gets me killed.......
oh and flying a 190a5 or a8 gives me a better chance anyway........

i used to hate it, but if you cant beat them, join them right? Oh im going to rooks too

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #51 on:** August 11, 2004, 09:19:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
This thread started out addressing the way someone roping another doesnt do it quite as well as he should and the lower guy can nose him, allowing the headon to happen. I wasnt addressing headons in general. Those happen..everyday..with 90% of the people in here. Dont like em..rather not have it..but thats the game.

my apologies if I side tracked your thread FiLtH, we must meet up sometime and duke it out in the CT or DA, miss them good fights............

Zazen13 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 12, 2004, 04:37:31 AM »

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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
ummm Zaz, I think u misread my post/er reply I meant they wouldn't even get a kill message, as when you shoot a chute you get no kill message.. my bad if I mislead ya or anyone LOL, I meant it as if you shot a plane down with a HO, ( not talking deflection) say maybe with in 10 degrees of pure HO, then you receive no kill awarded...just trying to be humorous something I need to work on I guess..my humor that is

same with ramming if you both collie why award either one with a kill, reward both with a collision / death, not sure if that is doable though with net lag and such.........sometimes I think to much:)

Yea, still my point though, they wouldn't care if they got a kill message or not, they would be content with the fact that they ended your mission.

Zazen

Canaris · « **Reply #53 on:** August 12, 2004, 08:39:37 AM »

I hate it when people ho on me. But if I see them start to fire first in a ho, then I will fire back. Most of the time i win cause the 38 has all the nasty guns on it.

Buzzz · « **Reply #54 on:** August 12, 2004, 11:20:57 AM »

No one commented on my idea to make headons score as NEGATIVE points.

That way it's still a viable option if your desperate and the situation turns to just trying to stay alive. But you would still have to pay for the consequences of your actions.

This would also not penalize a player who opts for the occasional headon kill too harshly but still really stick it to a player who's only tactic is to fly straight at others with guns blazing.

(And sure some dweebs would do it anyway but at least that way the scoreboard would reflect their dweebery and not make them look like some kind of hotshot hero.)

-Buzzz

PS: Yes I feel completely qualifed to be posting here. You would be hard pressed to find someone with more experience or expertise at being shot down than I have.

dedalos · « **Reply #55 on:** August 12, 2004, 11:29:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Buzzz
No one commented on my idea to make headons score as NEGATIVE points.

That way it's still a viable option if your desperate and the situation turns to just trying to stay alive. But you would still have to pay for the consequences of your actions.

This would also not penalize a player who opts for the occasional headon kill too harshly but still really stick it to a player who's only tactic is to fly straight at others with guns blazing.

(And sure some dweebs would do it anyway but at least that way the scoreboard would reflect their dweebery and not make them look like some kind of hotshot hero.)

-Buzzz

PS: Yes I feel completely qualifed to be posting here. You would be hard pressed to find someone with more experience or expertise at being shot down than I have.

I really don;t care about points or score. WHat I care about is that I spent 10 minutes flying to get to a fight and I just lost an elevator or worse, trying to avoid a HO pass. I really don't think scoring and perks are going to fix the so called "problem". Just do your best to avoid them and realize that it will not always be possible. Also, after the merge, a miscalculation from any of the two pilots could lock you up in a situation where you are facing the other guy at d400. Will you pull the triger or not ,and hope that he does not also. Do you keep turning knowing that other cons are around or that he has the better turning plane?

Lets accept that it happens and continue on