Author Topic: Ted Sampley of Swift Boats sez.... (Read 2553 times)

Charon · « **Reply #75 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:21:19 PM »

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I'm voting Libertarian I think. I may do that the rest of my life. This procession of party puppets has got to stop.

You know, I always went the "don't waste a vote" route. But you've really started me thinking about this. It would be the more honest vote for me as well.

Charon

Nash · « **Reply #76 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:27:37 PM »

Do it, man.

Vote Kermit in if nothing else apeals to ya.

You will not win, and I heard Kermit died sometime in the late nineties... But your vote *will* say something.

Maybe sometime down the road you'll get someone on the ballot more to your liking. That won't happen if ya continue to let the current left/right have an unfettered grip on the possibilities.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #77 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:28:10 PM »

I was thinking of starting an Apatheistic Procrastinistic Anarchist party, but I really don't care if I get around to getting it organized.

Nash · « **Reply #78 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:30:15 PM »

Mark me down as being passionately ambivalent to that idea.

demaw1 · « **Reply #79 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:49:27 PM »

Listen guys vote, even if it is for....gulp....kerry. Why? because it is important to you, and to the country ,and to your grandkids .So what if nothing is different, voting gives you more power than any gun can.

Listen to yourselves, as I have said narcissism is alive and well , oh my, no one is as smart and good as I am, well I am not going to put my self out, If I am going to vote , I will vote for the biggest fool of them all. It has to change because I say so or I wont vote. Nothing but I ,I , I, I. It has been said, it will only take one generation to lose all of our freedoms,everything we shed our blood for, for 200+ years. One day you will be telling your grandkids what America was like when she was free.

Why do you think it has come to this point? Maybe because the people lost interest in voting cause they wew to busy.

Ah forget it we deserve what we get.

Eagler · « **Reply #80 on:** August 13, 2004, 10:31:29 PM »

yep, vote the wrong person in outa the two choices and things will change, just hope we'll be around in 4 years to fix it ...

if A or B isn't what you are looking for, choose C in 4 years - after C has that time to sell himself to enough to make a diff (get a moore-on to make ya a movie) - now its just throwing your vote away

demaw - rather them flush their vote on some "principal vote" than give it to skerry where it might make a difference if somehow it gets close

a vote for skerry is a vote for the terrorists - if you wanna believe it or not... as that is the way they, the terrorist, will view it - just as they view any widely reported opposition to Iraq by our peace nik/admin haters

cpxxx · « **Reply #81 on:** August 13, 2004, 11:35:44 PM »

Grunherz.
You have to vote. Your vote does count because everyone's vote counts. If you don't vote one day, they (the enemies of freedom) will come and revoke your right to vote. If you protest 'I know my rights!'. They'll say 'You have no rights except those we allow you.' Then they'll shoot you because free speech goes along with the right to vote.

Democracy is a like a muscle; it must be exercised to make it strong.

SaburoS · « **Reply #82 on:** August 14, 2004, 12:44:58 AM »

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Originally posted by demaw1
You said you were in the military in 73, I hope it was a good experiance for you,yet you must remember johnson,mcnamara..55000 dead for nothing, and a couple of those my friends, and 1 badly wounded cousin, and another wounded, not as bad, but it was the million dollar wound.

Interesting you neglect Nixon, the one serving as President 69-74. Wouldn't be because he was a Republican? Our Vietnam "Policing Action" was pushed by both sides. I may be reading you wrong here but it appears you want to put blame squarely on the Democrats yet you seem to be ignoring the Republicans in this.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #83 on:** August 14, 2004, 01:15:31 AM »

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Originally posted by SaburoS
Interesting you neglect Nixon, the one serving as President 69-74. Wouldn't be because he was a Republican? Our Vietnam "Policing Action" was pushed by both sides. I may be reading you wrong here but it appears you want to put blame squarely on the Democrats yet you seem to be ignoring the Republicans in this.

Ike sent the first advisors, and 8 servicemen died on his watch. Kennedy continued the policy, and this policy resulted in 187 deaths of American servicemen.

Johnson sent the first combat troops and ecalated the body count by 35,955. Nixon began the pull out, losing 11,614 in 1969.(that is 4,970 less than '68, LBJ's last year)

In all six years of Nixon's watch, we lost 21,040. That's 14,915 less than LBJ's 5 years.

It can be argued that LBJ is responsible for many of the deaths in 69 and beyond as (using a sports analogy) he was the pitcher of record, and Nixon was a long reliever.

If you want to be mad at a president over Vietnam, LBJ is your man.

Nash · « **Reply #84 on:** August 14, 2004, 01:25:36 AM »

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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
...the body count by 35,955.

...began the pull out, losing 11,614

... we lost 21,040. That's 14,915 less than LBJ's 5 years.

Jesious... And people are bracing for Iraq's 1,000th.

God is not my father. Jesus was my brother. That's just horrible, useless and dumb.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #85 on:** August 14, 2004, 01:42:51 AM »

Agreed Nash but history shows worse.

General Pickett lost 1,000 in the first 500 yds.

demaw1 · « **Reply #86 on:** August 14, 2004, 04:19:32 PM »

Saburos.....lbj

Insert scream here.....You are talking about politics.....another scream. Going to give you some facts boy,and I dont need links to back them up.

1 The military did not lose that war.If we had followed the battle plan kennedy had we would have been out in a year or less.

2 good ole boy johnson and dumb face tied the hands of military so bad it stunk. He ran it from washington,made fighter/bombers go on mission with half ordiance,might do to much damage. Our pilots watched the russians build sam sites ,and were not allowed to bomb them. I know all about the wild weasel program, guess what, we knew where most were being built before they were finished. . Well mr smartie pants ask all most any pilot from that time why they didnt fire there sams at us on engress to target but waited until egress.

3 Wouldnt allow navy to blockade harbour, wouldnt allow air power to bomb harbours. [ by the way nixion did at end,and kennedy was going to at beginning.]

4 opps to much time on air. Body counts were 2 fold .1 to show Americans what ratio of kills were , but to also make sure we didnt kill to many in a specific place.[ could be said better]
How would you like to take a piece of ground and keep it? sorry not in this war...er police action. How about taking same piece of ground 10 times in 1 year, and walking away from it, so they can refortify each time. Oh ya, how about have them realing from bombing ,and then stopping it to talk peace while they are replacing war material. I know, how about taking the rifles away from the truck drivers because when attacked they would fight back and were killing to many vc.
You moron you dont know nothing.

SaburoS · « **Reply #87 on:** August 15, 2004, 01:24:42 AM »

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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Johnson sent the first combat troops and ecalated the body count by 35,955. Nixon began the pull out, losing 11,614 in 1969.(that is 4,970 less than '68, LBJ's last year)

In all six years of Nixon's watch, we lost 21,040. That's 14,915 less than LBJ's 5 years.

It can be argued that LBJ is responsible for many of the deaths in 69 and beyond as (using a sports analogy) he was the pitcher of record, and Nixon was a long reliever.

If you want to be mad at a president over Vietnam, LBJ is your man.

The thing is, is it isn't just one man responsible for that fiasco. You misunderstood what I stated. By your logic, we can blame Nixon for losing the war then. After all it was he who had a "secret plan to end the war" which I believe he commenced in '70. We won all our battles, why give it up then?
No, not a single man is to blame for the Vietnam War. The war was born out of ignorance and arrogance of those not knowing of the Vietnemese history. It wasn't a Republican or Democrat issue, as much as you Republican supporters want to paint the Democrats.

SaburoS · « **Reply #88 on:** August 15, 2004, 01:38:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by demaw1
Saburos.....lbj

Insert scream here.....You are talking about politics.....another scream. Going to give you some facts boy,and I dont need links to back them up.

1 The military did not lose that war.If we had followed the battle plan kennedy had we would have been out in a year or less.

2 good ole boy johnson and dumb face tied the hands of military so bad it stunk. He ran it from washington,made fighter/bombers go on mission with half ordiance,might do to much damage. Our pilots watched the russians build sam sites ,and were not allowed to bomb them. I know all about the wild weasel program, guess what, we knew where most were being built before they were finished. . Well mr smartie pants ask all most any pilot from that time why they didnt fire there sams at us on engress to target but waited until egress.

3 Wouldnt allow navy to blockade harbour, wouldnt allow air power to bomb harbours. [ by the way nixion did at end,and kennedy was going to at beginning.]

4 opps to much time on air. Body counts were 2 fold .1 to show Americans what ratio of kills were , but to also make sure we didnt kill to many in a specific place.[ could be said better]
How would you like to take a piece of ground and keep it? sorry not in this war...er police action. How about taking same piece of ground 10 times in 1 year, and walking away from it, so they can refortify each time. Oh ya, how about have them realing from bombing ,and then stopping it to talk peace while they are replacing war material. I know, how about taking the rifles away from the truck drivers because when attacked they would fight back and were killing to many vc.
You moron you dont know nothing.

Well I tried to be polite with you but guess that's out of the window, you IDIOT.
I can just imagine you playing chess, getting check-mated but whining you didn't lose cause you have all your pieces still. We lost that war, Vietnam won it. It cost them 1.1 million troops and 2 million civillian deaths. News for you MR. Clueless, wars aren't won by bodycounts alone, but by goals. We made the mistake of catagorizing those Nationalists as Communists. We had the weaponry and the technology hence the high Vietnamese casualties.
Their goal was to unify Vietnam and be free of foreign occupation. They've been successful against the Chinese, French, etc., and they were successful against us. They won, we lost. Short of wiping out 3/4 of their population wouldn't change that. That's what happens to invaders/occupiers. World history is full of failures. In closing perhaps you need to read different sources.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #89 on:** August 15, 2004, 02:05:24 AM »

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Originally posted by SaburoS
It wasn't a Republican or Democrat issue, as much as you Republican supporters want to paint the Democrats.

I didn't misunderstand SaburoS. I was just pointing out that Johnson's policy was the one we followed to get into the mess. Nixon didn't initiate a immediate pull out, as he when thru the "Peace with Honor" and "Vietnamization" of the conflict.

Just by casualty figures alone, LBJ was 62% responsible for VN.

It isn't a partisan political thing, it's just history. Blame Ike if you want, he is the guy in charge at the inception.