The Camp of the La7

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Widewing
I understand. Down in the weeds the La-7 is the best fighter in the game, period. I also agree that the 3 gun version should be perked along the lines of the C-Hog, leaving the 2 gun model as is. After all, only a handful of the 3 gun La-7s saw service before the end of the war.

Now, as to fighting in and against the La-7, it boils down to tactics and creating opportunities.

Since December of last year, my K/D against the La-7 is 21/1. Flying the La-7, my K/D is 36/1. That's rediculous. Believe me, it's the plane far more than the pilot.

What this tells me is that the La-7 is easy to kill in and easy to survive in. It is also easy to kill the La-7 if the pilot flies too aggressively. In other words, he has more balls than brains and consequently will be carrying the former home in a Zip-Lock bag, while the latter is befuddled at his circumstances.

Keep it fast, master the guns, fly with good SA and the La-7 is nearly invincible. Fly it dumb, and it'll die just like any other aircraft. Fortunately, the fact remains that most of the guys flying the La-7, fly it dumb.

I certainly understand Urchin's point though. A decent stick flying the La-7 is as lethal as the very best stick in almost anything else.
Urchin should remember a one on one we had some months ago. It was southwest of A28 on the NDIlses map. I was up in an La-7 and had just shot down several F4Us. Down to about 20 rounds of ammo, I was heading back to rearm for the next wave. I spotted an incoming Ta 152 slightly above me (I guess I was at 8k or so). I don't remember the details, but I eventually got on the 152's tail. The 152 tried every trick in the book to shake off the pesky LaLa, but I stayed there waiting for a decent shot. The 152 was working hard to give me lousy angles and as my gas dwindled down, I took a poor angle shot and either missed or did no noteworthy damage. Having emptied my guns, I soon broke off and headed back. I gave a salute to the 152 driver and Urchin replied in kind. Now, I have flown against Urchin in the DA and he's better than I am, especially on the merge where he waxed me time and again. If I had been flying almost any other late-war plane against his 152, I would probably have lost that fight. So, I have no doubt that the La-7 makes any pilot more dangerous, significantly so in some matchups.

The key to this is if the pilot knows how to maximize the La-7's advantages and avoid getting low and slow in a crowd. If he knows how to utilize the La-7 to its potential, he'll be a son-of-buck to deal with. If he doesn't...he's usually just another dead guy. Nonetheless, fighting below 10,000 ft, a good pilot flying the La-7 is THE MOST DANGEROUS COMBINATION IN THE GAME

My regards,

Widewing

I just posted the exact same thing Widewing about ten posts up, brilliant minds think....Oh , nevermind.
 


Zazen

[DoKGonZo]

Also remember that one of the La-7's most endearing features is straight-line acceleration. The P51's need a bit of downhill room to get their wind up - the LA can gain a ton of speed just going level. And that burst of level speed can make up for a lot of dumb, dumb flying.

But the stats you provide on the P-51B surprised me. I may need to give it a try.

[Kweassa]

And this justifies perking it on what grounds?

 See the NPA concept. Links in my sig.

 It doesn't justify the perking of only the La-7. However, it does justify the perking of the entire section of fighters that are in the 'La-7 class'.

 The MA, especially since the changes in gunnery, is now undeniably shifted towards a virtual environment resembling late '44~ '45. It's a time where most of the basic aircraft tactics and performance levels have been already established, with  multi-purpose fighters.

 The planes of this era is very powerful in performance, is usually able to carry out multiple tasks, and also generally very high in survivability.

 It renders all the other planes in the planeset between 1940~43 utterly useless, or at least vastly incompetent. Not to mention takes away the role of most jabos and bombers in the game, and shifts the game into a sterile, bland environment where only a handful of superplanes are used again and again.

[Redd]

Originally posted by Kweassa


 The MA, especially since the changes in gunnery, is now undeniably shifted towards a virtual environment resembling late '44~ '45. It's a time where most of the basic aircraft tactics and performance levels have been already established, with  multi-purpose fighters.

 The planes of this era is very powerful in performance, is usually able to carry out multiple tasks, and also generally very high in survivability.

 It renders all the other planes in the planeset between 1940~43 utterly useless, or at least vastly incompetent. Not to mention takes away the role of most jabos and bombers in the game, and shifts the game into a sterile, bland environment where only a handful of superplanes are used again and again.

Have seen this shift toward  late-war planes accelerate as well.

[Redd]

Originally posted by GScholz
I found that I could easily outturn an F6F in the Lala, even at stall speeds with flaps out.

I think pilot skill must have factored into that Gsholtz.

if the LA-7 fights a pure TNB knife fight the F6-F can outurn it, down and dirty. If the lala is smart and  uses it's acceleration and climb to e-fight the hellcat , the fight should be with the LA-7. Lala can of course disengage at will.

The difference in turning ability is not huge though they are quite close.

[Ghosth]

I used to fly the la7 a LOT. Yeah I liked the fact that 9 out of 10 sorties it made me look better than I really am.

Vs the F6f about all I really had to do was stay fast. Duck the first 2 passes as the F6f trys to get around & get guns on. After that they'd blown so much E they were ussually easy meat.

But every now & then I'd run into a smart f6f driver like Math or Redd. They'd kill me 2 out of 3 before I could hardly blink.

As far as perking it, I'd have no problem seeing the 3 gun version perked at 6 - 10 perks like the C-hawg.

I prefer the 2 gun setup anyway.

[DoctorYO]

The La7 is a dweeb plane and anyone who says otherwise is a dweeb himself..

the only thing this aircraft is lacking is visability.. (many other aircraft suffer the same drawback though..)

Some people claim its legs are bad.. (range) well when you factor a climbout of 6-8k to have your aircraft near max speed this is a moot point..  This aircraft goes as fast as some aircraft with a 7-8k advantage which is silly.. exp...  jug / p38 is slower at 13k then a la7 is at 8k..  thats freaking stupid..

granted this happened in real life and hey its a great plane.. but for HTC to use this dweebmobile to handicap pilots of lesser skill to be more in line with the experten i dont agree with..  I see lot of complaining about how no one fights in this game and this stupid aircraft is at the root of the problem..

Yeah the dora /stang can run..  but their effective alts to do such are limited. also their acceleration is no where near on par with this machine..  Hence when a mistake is made it is corrected thru accel and top speed in the la7 where the mustang has no such abilities and the dora cant turn very well.. the la7 can do both..  with roll rate matching both aircraft..

no other aircraft in the game has the strengths that this bird has in the combination it has.. a few have some of the pie but the la7 is the only aircraft to have near all of them..

so i say again .. the la7 is a dweeb plane, the new dweebfire.. (spits used to be huge but with new flight model speed and accel are key.. i dont consider them dweeby with rocket7's buzzing around..)

you would cry foul if you saw me flying that thing ..  maybe a ostwind or bomber or collision kill once during a blue moon..

other than that I would put paypal money that i could easily rack 30 / 40 /or even 50 k/d in it..  trust me you dont want that.. the cheat accusations would be rampant but then again i consider flying this aircraft fulltime cheating in the first place..



DoctorYo

[hogenbor]

Originally posted by Widewing
At 15k, the P-51B is just about the best non-perked fighter in the game in terms of overall performance.  

I KNEW I must have learned something in the two years I play this game. It isn't my favourite fighter for nothing. But shhht, I'd like to keep it a secret.

[JustJim]

Perk The Pilot NOT The Ride.

Use K/D Ratio in the perk equasion , after all good sticks make the plane what it is.

[DipStick]

There has to be a 'best' non-perked plane in the game. Some think it's the La7, some don't. So what's the big deal? If you feel others have an advantage over you in it then fly it yourself, otherwise shuddup and die. Better yet learn how to kill it!  

[TBolt A-10]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
The La7 is a dweeb plane and anyone who says otherwise is a dweeb himself..

the only thing this aircraft is lacking is visability.. (many other aircraft suffer the same drawback though..)

Some people claim its legs are bad.. (range) well when you factor a climbout of 6-8k to have your aircraft near max speed this is a moot point..  This aircraft goes as fast as some aircraft with a 7-8k advantage which is silly.. exp...  jug / p38 is slower at 13k then a la7 is at 8k..  thats freaking stupid..

granted this happened in real life and hey its a great plane.. but for HTC to use this dweebmobile to handicap pilots of lesser skill to be more in line with the experten i dont agree with..  I see lot of complaining about how no one fights in this game and this stupid aircraft is at the root of the problem..

Yeah the dora /stang can run..  but their effective alts to do such are limited. also their acceleration is no where near on par with this machine..  Hence when a mistake is made it is corrected thru accel and top speed in the la7 where the mustang has no such abilities and the dora cant turn very well.. the la7 can do both..  with roll rate matching both aircraft..

no other aircraft in the game has the strengths that this bird has in the combination it has.. a few have some of the pie but the la7 is the only aircraft to have near all of them..

so i say again .. the la7 is a dweeb plane, the new dweebfire.. (spits used to be huge but with new flight model speed and accel are key.. i dont consider them dweeby with rocket7's buzzing around..)

you would cry foul if you saw me flying that thing ..  maybe a ostwind or bomber or collision kill once during a blue moon..

other than that I would put paypal money that i could easily rack 30 / 40 /or even 50 k/d in it..  trust me you dont want that.. the cheat accusations would be rampant but then again i consider flying this aircraft fulltime cheating in the first place..

DoctorYo

[/color]

Bravo, DoctorYo.  

[TBolt A-10]

Originally posted by DipStick
If you feel others have an advantage over you in it then fly it yourself,

[/b]

That'd kind of be like everyone taking advantage of a cheat just because we could.  

otherwise shuddup and die. Better yet learn how to kill it!  

When you're in a non-La-7 aircraft, turning and burning in a low-E state for the 4th or 5th minute of the fight, it's kind of tough to "learn how to kill (the La-7)" when they join the fight to finish you off.  oOps...we can't extend and outrun the La-7 in order to setup a re-engagement, and my aircraft sure as HELL can't turn with it.  

If your next suggestion is..."don't allow yourself to get stuck in a fight on the deck," I might as well quit Aces High because I wouldn't start 85% of my fights.

[DoKGonZo]

This discussion always makes me wish for a rolling plane set.

People will always gravitate to the late war planes - for the obvious reasons. Perks can control that to some degree, but all that really does is shift the balance point on what's most uber and what's not. Instead of hordes of La-7's it'll be La-5's and Spit V's.

And basing it on perks really only takes these planes out of the hands of the newer players who need them the most.

Even if the RPS had only two modes (1944 like we have now, and 1942 w/no perked rides) that could help add to the depth of the game.

I know people hate RPS, but it would provide a better mix and force people out of flying just one "dweeb" ride.

[recon7]

So, after the LA-7 gets perked, what's the next plane to whine about for 1-2 years before it get's perked?

As pointed out, the LA-7 has many strengths, especially at "furball" altitude.  But it's not damn invincible!  I kill plenty of them and get killed in them.  

There are turn fighters that out turn it if you get it too slow.

If you're in the furball already, some dweeb in ANY plane can bounce you with his alt and speed.

As said, with a few exceptions, most people that fly the plane, don't fly it to it's strengths.  That's what gets me killed in it.

My point is after the LA-7 gets perked, the N1K is next.  I'm actually surprised the N1K gets less attention than the LA-7.  I hear so many people talking about it's UFO qualities.

If we follow this out to it's logical conclusion, let's just go ahead and perk ALL of the late war planes.  That's where we will be eventually...

[Shane]

99% of the seals who whine about the LA-7 can barely even handle themselves in their plane of choice.

my challenge to these is to ask me to the DA and we'll fly *your* plane of choice.  after this,  i'd even be willing to let *you* fly the la-7 and i fly *your* ride. maybe you'll learn something.