Zell Miller ROCKS!

[Silat]

Originally posted by Murdr
Doesnt work that way.  It only counts now.  Its ok to be a Democrat and have either a hint of, or even blatent racism in you past.  Its ok to be a (D) US senator and a former KKK official.  Its ok to be a (D) US senator and make jokes about people from India.  Its ok to be a (D) US congressperson, and refer to a comittee lead by a hispanic you met with as a "bunch of white guys".  I guess if you do enough to become a persona no grata Democrat though, that privilage gets revoked though.

First of all Im not a demo and 2nd Ill call it as the facts show it about anyone. Unfortunately you cant seem to do the same.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Silat
First of all Im not a demo and 2nd Ill call it as the facts show it about anyone. Unfortunately you cant seem to do the same.

That was sarcasm you quoted, and it wasnt even directed toward you.  I am still waiting on how the whole kkk thing is even relevent, and if relevent, what is the point?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Murdr
... Criticizing what he said, why he said it, the validity of his statments, thats cool.  So why bring up the KKK?  He wasnt a Robert Byrd or a David Duke.  Even if he was, what does that have to do with what he said in his speech?  Absolutely nothing.   What does that have to do with the validity of his claims?  Absolutely nothing.  I wonder what the next tact will be when that generation that lived through the civil rights changes eventually die off.  ...

We'll be mostly dead in about 20 or 30 years. Enjoy the wait. Thanks for caring.


And what a person says in the context of the associations which define his belief structures is very crucial. Because  the Klan's ideals impart a subtext for anything said by someone who belongs, or belonged, to it. You join the Klan because you believe what they believe, right? This ain't like joining a bowling league. So if you believed in ethnic hatred enough to join the Klan, or even hang out with them, that colors (no pun intended) anything you say to the ears of people who aren't into genocide.

You're born with your race - you choose to join the Klan. And that choice carries forward. Saying that it doesn't matter if he is or was a member of the Klan is very disturbing.

Afterall, anyone in an elected office in this country should believe that "all men are created equal", right? The KKK doesn't believe that - quite the contrary. So just who is this man representing?

Note that I'm not talking about Zell specifically here, I'm talking about the generalization you made about association with a hate group being irrelevant.


All that being said, I don't know squat about Zell up til this week, but what I saw wasn't impressive. It was not what I would expect from a statesman. However, from what I saw of his tirade, there was nothing racial in it.

    -DoK

[Murdr]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You're born with your race - you choose to join the Klan. And that choice carries forward. Saying that it doesn't matter if he is or was a member of the Klan is very disturbing

I did not say that it didnt matter.  What I did say it is out of line to throw Zell in with the KKK in this conversation.  He worked for/associated with known segregationist at one time.  I find it offensive to make the strech to refer to him as a klan member.  I also grow tired of this stereo-type pre-judgment of people today based on where they stood half a century ago.  That in and of itself is bigotry.  Right and wrong is a constant, but the degree in which it is viewed varies in society over time.  It is disingenous to judge peoples actions generations ago based solely on what is socially acceptable today.  There is no context in it.

This did not enter the discussion as oh, by the way 40 years ago this guy was still alinged with segregationist.   IT ENTERED THE DISCUSSION AS A US SENATOR ADDRESSING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONVENTION IS AKIN TO A KKK RALLY?

If you dont see anything wrong with that, then I really have to question exactly who the hatefull bigots are around here.  This is BS and I am calling it.

[TheDudeDVant]

I thought Jon Stewart's piece on Zell Miller to be very telling..

Watching the 'keynote' speaker was very frightening to me. That man was full of hate and fear. As already stated it is sad to see such emotions exhibited from a 'statesman'. Its very sad to me to see and read some stating how they thought he gave an inspiring speech. If that is the direction our leaders are going and it is acceptable, even wanted, by the people... Well, why even say it..

Zell Miller is democrate by name only. I saw him interviewed and he stated he was democrate because of where he was from. He said 'his people are democrates'.. The area where he grew up was democrate. The quilt he was cut from was a democratic quilt. I think you can get the point.

Strange to see such anger from the party that has had entire control of the government for almost 4 years now..

[Martlet]

I thought the moonbats reply to Miller to be very telling.

[Coolridr]

Originally posted by Martlet
I thought the moonbats reply to Miller to be very telling.

That video from Zell was from the 1992 DNC:rolleyes:

Waht does that have to do with now. He was talking about Bush Sr.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Coolridr
That video from Zell was from the 1992 DNC:rolleyes:

Waht does that have to do with now. He was talking about Bush Sr.

Exactly my point.

I guess it's all they could dig up.

[GRUNHERZ]

Yea I noticed that little video when I visted the DNC site after zell's speech.

What did they do? Have Micheal Moore put it together.. It was typical of his sleight of hand.  I loved the obvious despertaion of that lying little video.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Murdr
...  I also grow tired of this stereo-type pre-judgment of people today based on where they stood half a century ago.  That in and of itself is bigotry.  Right and wrong is a constant, but the degree in which it is viewed varies in society over time.  It is disingenous to judge peoples actions generations ago based solely on what is socially acceptable today.  ...

I would agree with you here. When Perot ran, despite some of his untimely ways of referring to minorities when he spoke, it was clear where he stood. It was obvious that a lot of his mannerisms were simply a reflection of the era in which he was born.

And I said in my post that I saw nothing racially suggestive in Zell's RNC rant. (And, sorry, it was a rant.)

But ... in general principles ... in matters a whole hell of a lot if someone was at any time in their lives associated with the KKK. The point you were trying to make is valid, but the way you made it was very, very inflamatory whether you know it or not.


And, since you opened the door, Viet Nam was almost a generation ago. If it wouldn't matter if Zell was wearing a white hood in the 1970's, why does it matter so much that Kerry was speaking out about the war at the same time? Look at the last line of your post that I quoted. Oops. Yeah.

The answer is they both matter, but they must be taken in context and in degree.

     -DoK

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I thought Jon Stewart's piece on Zell Miller to be very telling..

...

McCain's explanation was priceless: "I guess John Kerry shot his [Zell's] dog."

[AKIron]

Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Watching the 'keynote' speaker was very frightening to me. That man was full of hate and fear.

Maybe you should stick with Mary Popins.

[TheDudeDVant]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
McCain's explanation was priceless: "I guess John Kerry shot his [Zell's] dog."

lol ya.. I wanna rip on McCain for what hes doing right now with the RNC, but he makes it so damn hard..

[Coolridr]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yea I noticed that little video when I visted the DNC site after zell's speech.

What did they do? Have Micheal Moore put it together.. It was typical of his sleight of hand.  I loved the obvious despertaion of that lying little video.

They made the "1992 convention" part  as hard to see as possible...dark grey against a black backgound and a font size of like maybe 2.

[1K0N]

Just damn