Aiming In Ostwind: An End to Vulching as a Viable Method of Score Padding

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by pellik
Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.

What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:

a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))

a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile


-p.

Wow yea, that's nice and all but while you're doing math they're vulching your buddies. My method is the 'practical' way to hit stuff, no calculator required...

Zazen

[Simaril]

I've tried this max zoom techniques, and i end up with way too little lead. When I max zoom, i feel like i'm counting the rivets. It works great for aiming gv rounds, but the field of view is so tiny that there is practically no lead.

Whta am I doing wrong?

[pellik]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Wow yea, that's nice and all but while you're doing math they're vulching your buddies. My method is the 'practical' way to hit stuff, no calculator required...

Zazen

Although I let the math speak for me, a big part of the point of that equation is that distance to target is irrelevent. Changing your lead based on distance to target is incorrect.

The idea with this formula is to calculate a few common situations to see how much angle you need. Doing the math and having a precise angle as a guideline and then guestimating the rest when you're actually shooting is recommended.

This is how I fine tuned my gunnery to the point I have for the american 50s. As it stands now I'm one of only a hand full of people who routinely pick up deflection shots at 800+. I worked out the math for 90 degrees for cons at 200 and 300mph. I memorized those points on my plane, and instead of trying to find lead by walking tracers I just pick the angles. The big advantage to working out the math is that when you understand the lead you're using it's much easier to remember shots then with trying to memorize shot profiles. You get to say things like 'wow, that 262 going 500mph needed a lot of lead. Next time I shoot at a 262 I'm giving him 20 degrees.'

-p.

[MOIL]

Originally posted by Simaril
I've tried this max zoom techniques, and i end up with way too little lead. When I max zoom, i feel like i'm counting the rivets. It works great for aiming gv rounds, but the field of view is so tiny that there is practically no lead.

Whta am I doing wrong?

You're not doing anything "wrong" just not as percise as it could be.
You just need proper training

Hey Zazen, how ya doin' on kills this tour for our lil competition ?

[Toad]

You nicknamed your Ostwind?

Uh.... well, OK then.

[MOIL]

Originally posted by Toad
You nicknamed your Ostwind?

Uh.... well, OK then.

???

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Innominate

Exiting from a vehicle to avoid giving someone a kill is extremly lame.  As is EVERY attempt to deny someone a kill while in the middle of combat.  There is a difference between exiting on a runway before a bomb hits, and exiting in a GV before a bomb hits.  In the GV you're actively engaged in the fight, exiting FROM A FIGHT only when your life is in danger.  In an aircraft you're making no attempt to inflict damage anymore, simply to escape.  A fighter on the runway is hardly engaged in combat.  (This includes vulchees, so spawn and .ef all you like)

Exiting in a GV before a bomb hits you is akin to pulling a disconnect in the air when someone is going to run you down.

Using game mechanics to escape a fight you're involved in is lame.

In short...BE A MAN! LET THAT 1K EGG LAND ON YOU!

[bj229r]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
He who insists on upping from a capped base,gets vulched and continues to do so is a moron and deserves whatever he gets.......

Vulch till your hearts content or till pilots upping from capped base grow a brain and take off someplce else

I tend to agree with that view, but to the brave bastids that do it anyhow and often save bases from capture while ruining their precious K/D's

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by pellik
Although I let the math speak for me, a big part of the point of that equation is that distance to target is irrelevent. Changing your lead based on distance to target is incorrect.

The idea with this formula is to calculate a few common situations to see how much angle you need. Doing the math and having a precise angle as a guideline and then guestimating the rest when you're actually shooting is recommended.

This is how I fine tuned my gunnery to the point I have for the american 50s. As it stands now I'm one of only a hand full of people who routinely pick up deflection shots at 800+. I worked out the math for 90 degrees for cons at 200 and 300mph. I memorized those points on my plane, and instead of trying to find lead by walking tracers I just pick the angles. The big advantage to working out the math is that when you understand the lead you're using it's much easier to remember shots then with trying to memorize shot profiles. You get to say things like 'wow, that 262 going 500mph needed a lot of lead. Next time I shoot at a 262 I'm giving him 20 degrees.'

-p.

I'll take your word for the physics, but I assure you, my method works in the game...

Zazen

[im911]

Zaz,

When you say zoom all the way in, is that "Z" all the way and then continue by using the "[" and "]" keys?

[eilif]

origionaly posted by Zazen13

P.S. This IS a game, everything we do is 'gamey' to some extent, it's supposed to be, it's a freakin' game! Lighten up!

reminds me of something x0847Marine might say to rationalize his style of play:rolleyes: i think he also went so far as to put some tape on his screen

[Simaril]

Originally posted by pellik
Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.

What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:

a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))

a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile


-p.

So, Pellik - what is the V(p) for the 37mm ground and Osty guns? Tony Williams' site helped me with the others.


This method makes a lot of sense to me, I guess fitting with how my mind works.

Yes, I am a numbers geek...

[pellik]

Originally posted by Simaril
So, Pellik - what is the V(p) for the 37mm ground and Osty guns? Tony Williams' site helped me with the others.


This method makes a lot of sense to me, I guess fitting with how my mind works.

Yes, I am a numbers geek...

About 800m/s

[Shifty]

Originally posted by eskimo2
In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.

They are right you know.

eskimo

Theres a bucket of cold water for you.  That is the truest statement I've seen on this board in four years.

[TalonX]

Originally posted by pellik
Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.

What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:

a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))

a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile


-p.

Actually, the distance to the target when you pull the trigger is very important....  The projectile must cover all that ground while the target is moving to the side.....defined by sin B * V(t).     Also, as the projectile moves towards the target, the target moves away (extending the flight time of the projectile) at cos B * V(t), which adds to the flight time of the projectile.

Bottom line, holding all else constant,  the greater the distance at trigger pull, the greater the lead required.

That should put most of you to sleep!