Author Topic: Alternative to perking C-Hog (Read 573 times)

SOB · « **on:** January 07, 2001, 02:59:00 AM »

I'm still not sure exactly what the plane values for perk points are based on, but from what Pyro said, it seems it's based on number of kills by a plane. The CHog has 20% more kills than any other plane in the arena, thus making any plane worth 20% more perk points than the next highest plane, which Pyro says is too high. He'd be the one to know, so I can't/won't argue with that. However, if 20% will skew the numbers too much, why not just put a cap on how far ahead of the pack the most popular plane can be as far as perk point value. Just cap it at 1-5% more value than the next most popular plane, and you will still get more points for killing it, and it won't skew the numbers so bad.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad idea, it's just an idea. I rarely, if ever fly the CHog, but I know how I'd feel if my favorite ride was perked out from under me. Fortunately for me, I'm loving the Hellcat as much as my other fav (the niki), so I'm not too worried for myself.

<rant>
So there are a lot of CHogs in the arena right now. I say, so what? It's a popular plane for whatever reason, and a lot of people want to fly it. The fact still remains that it's just a big blue turd that can be killed easily, unless it's flown with skill. The narrow minded idiots out there will still complain and squeak and call anyone that chooses to fly the bird a "Quakedweeb" or "Chog Dweeb" with no ACM skills, but they pretty much show their intellectual capacity and fragile egos when they do so.
</rant>

SOB
...sorry, the last paragraph was for the anti-chog picketers who will soon inundate this thread...I know Pyro's descision is based soley on numbers and not the whining.

[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 01-07-2001).]

wolf37 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2001, 03:51:00 AM »

hi:

chogs in the MA, hmmmmm I dont think I have ever seen one. hehehehehe

ok, the reason there are so many chogs now is because of the carriers, so if the chog is perked, then the next will be the hellcat, as it will be the most used carrier aircraft in the game.

Now as for the chog getting perked, I dont care, I dont fly it and wont use perk points to fly it. I am one of the worst chog pilots in the game.

hmmmmmmm maybe I'll try the 205 for a few nights. been a well since I have flown the 205 more then one or two sorties. well what ever happens, I will be here to see it.

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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

Hans · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2001, 04:08:00 AM »

The whole idea behind perk planes was to diversify the game. More people will fly less popular airplanes for the chance to fly the super planes latter.

I think the C-hog is getting perked not because it is so good, but because there are no perk planes, so it gets to be the perk untill we get some really wild airplanes. Nobody is trying to fly anything else because there is no reason too, no tangible reward.

It may get unperked when its true replacment gets introduced in 1.06.

Hans.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 01-07-2001).]

Fishu · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2001, 04:31:00 AM »

D hog should be favored over C hog, when it comes to numbers built.
Just minority of hogs were C's right?
Those 4 hispanos are super like we all know and plane has been made in few hundreds, so there would be a great perk plane. (or can we have Ta-152 as well without perk points or a very low requirements?)

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2001, 10:17:00 AM »

The F4U-1C has 15229 kills and has been killed 11224 times
The F6F-5 has 6258 kills and has been killed 7128 times
The PT-Boat has 5353 kills and has been killed 7117 times
The N1K2 has 5827 kills and has been killed 4735 times.
The F4U-1D has 4823 kills and has been killed 4846 times
The Spitfire Mk IX has 3145 kills and has been killed 3224 times
The Seafire Mk II has 3090 kills and has been killed 3989 times
The Bf 109G-10 has 1872 kills and has been killed 1652 times
The TBM-3 has 1397 kills and has been killed 7319 times
The Field Gunner has 5375 kills and has been killed 36 times

The F4u-1C did not used to be the problem it is today. People whined about it, but basically it was any other aircraft with better guns. The N1K actually out-flies it and has guns that are nearly as good. This was realized in the pre-navy tours as the N1K usage began to aproach Spit9 and C-Hog usage.

With the introduction of the Navy, the N1k usage wasn't really affected much. It is on par to do the near 10k kills it has been doing the last two tours. The spitfire has seen a dramatic drop in use as it was probably the most flown (tho not necessarily most killed) aircraft in AH. The LW planes are barely worth mentioning as they have seen greater than a 50% drop in use.

Basically, those people that were flying a more diverse group of aircraft have seemingly thrown it all in the can once the navy arrived. With the simple "whatever aircraft is best" mentality, the F4u-1C is being used by everyone. Of course, there is no shortage of people willing to join the zero risk "Field Gunner" position either. Of course, nobody claiming that the F4u-1C is uber has ever done that.

One irony is that one of the planes used almost as much as the F4u-1C is the TBM-3. Of course, one can kill while the other is pretty much defenseless.

Another sad thing is that alot of decent pilots are feeling they need to rely on the F4u-1C to maintain their score. I'm not talking the dedicated bunch that have been flying it since it came out... but those that had to give up their land-based rides and make a choice. You can't argue with the hispano's destructive power... but I have to wonder where the sense of accomplishment is. Seems fewer and fewer people are concerned with that.

One thing that might keep the 1C in check is to remove it from carrier service. This has effectively controlled the N1K and could do the same for the F4u-1C. Still make it landable on an aircraft carrier, but not spawnable from one. It could re-arm, re-fuel there but no more than that. That makes it carrier capable, but not carrier launchable. What is more accurate... F4u-1Cs being barely used from carriers, or more used than all other aircraft combined?

I'm not a big fan of perking the F4u-1C for the simple reason they are too easy to shoot down. Only two members of my squad do not have a better than 1:1 ratio against F4u-1Cs. As a result, who is going to want to waste perk points on an aircraft that really doesn't offer anything the Tiffie or the F4u-1D don't already offer?

And, for you whiners, those "turbo-lasers" are still out there. You didn't get rid of them, you just moved the clientele to a different ride. Be ready with a can of spray paint, so you can x out the "Ban the F4u-1C" on your signs and be ready for "Ban the next plane that kills me". Of course, you are now going to have to argue that another ride has the uber handling characteristics you know you saw... and that you mistook it for an F4u-1C last tour.. really it was this plane.

Aaa... why bother? There is so much more wrong with this MA than planeset/strat it is phenomenal.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 01-07-2001).]

lazs · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2001, 10:29:00 AM »

I have flown nothing but the D hog this tour. I believe that with the new guns you will see more D than C Hogs. Hope they don't perk the D hog tho. Maybe perk should be based on color? Blue planes being too good for normal MA? Sheesh.... When the -4 comes out they will have to be passed out like the medal of honor..... Hey fish.... wasn't the garden variety 109 G the plane most available to the germans?

Perk whatever plane Is the most popular after every tour. Eventually we will have a "fair" arena. Or.... dump the whole idiotic perk plane idea and just make early, mid and late war "areas" in the arena.
lazs

Mayhem · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2001, 10:30:00 AM »

You know I wounder if the japanesse cried as much about the f4u1c as you guys do. You do know in WWII there where butt kicking aircraft that where better then alot of the others. first off the the biggest crie about the chog is it's guns. well guess what you have less ammo then it's MG equipt counterpart so you have to have good aim. secondly the plane is slower then it's real life counterpart. the f4u was the first 400+mph carrier plane. Funny I can't ever seem to get it above 400mph not at any alt with 25% fuel no ordanance and thats True Air speed not indicated. same thing goes for the stang It's slow and it's exceleration sucks. the N1k2-j was posibly the best fighter of wwII and one of the most advanced (to bad only 400 of the n1k2-j's ever saw service then again For the US it was a good thing.) and even it seems undermodeled and leaning towards a turnfighter. I actually got outclimed once by a zeke in 1.04 while I was flying a f4u1c. So please Stop crying about aircraft unless you all want to be stuck flying spits becuase thats what your asking for.

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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

Pyro · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2001, 12:41:00 PM »

Here's what I'm referring to. This just shows kills per plane as a percentage of all kills in the arena. Obviously the carrier planes are getting heavy use and that needs to be considered, but even so that's quite a jump in the chart. I don't want to increase the range of point values because they get overvalued for killing them. Making it a low level perk has about the same effect but only hits it on one side of the equation. And that is what we're talking about, a low level adjustment, maybe a single point in cost. I don't know what it will take, that's part of transitioning this system from theory to practice and that will take time and adjustments before it stabilizes. As it stands now we have to get some other ducks in a row before we perk anything but it's likely to happen before long. It's just a practical matter to me, I don't tie my emotional stability one way or the other to any particular plane.

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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Westy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2001, 01:31:00 PM »

I thought making the F4U-1C land based only would lower it's use. But as anyone can see even though the 'Niki' is land based it's still being used more than the F4U-1D. So the C-hog usage might drop fi ti was restricted to land bases but it would still be the most predominate plane encountered... imo.

Maybe, try land basing it AND having next to no value for using it - as regard perk points?

-Westy

Betown · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2001, 01:33:00 PM »

What about if you give a reward for killing things in less used planes. If I killed a Chog in a yak. Then I would get lots of points. But if I killed a yak in a Chog then i would get not so many points?
Somthing like that could work

Zigrat · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2001, 01:36:00 PM »

quote:

I don't tie my emotional stability one way or the other to any particular plane.

thats because you are a well balanced individual Pyro

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2001, 01:49:00 PM »

Quote

I thought making the F4U-1C land based only would lower it's use. But as anyone can see even though the 'Niki' is land based it's still being used more than the F4U-1D.

2 Weeks of tour 11: "The F4U-1D has 1280 kills and has been killed 2079 times"
Tour 11: "The N1K2 has 6176 kills and has been killed 5977 times.

"

All 5 weeks of tour 10: "The F4U-1D has 1416 kills and has been killed 2456 times"
Tour 10: "The N1K2 has 10915 kills and has been killed 9972 times"

The N1K2 use has not diminished that much. The F4u-1D is simply shooting up. The F6F-5 has done little to hold back the F4u-1D surge... despite its prolific use.

The truth is.. virtually all of the CV aircraft are being used extensively. Hell the Zero is even being used. What that factor did to the already most popular plane was simply too much.

Pyro doesn't want to remove it from carrier duty rosters (I disagree with this one)... so perking it is the only other option. Sadly.. this will be the death of the plane.

AKDejaVu

Kirin · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2001, 01:56:00 PM »

Errr, Betown, that's excactly what the perk point system does right now...

Oh man, look at the graph - Mayhem I am sure the Japanese would have whined so loud about the CHog applied in this masses that you could have heard it in in Nothern Spain!!!

I am sure the big mass of the Choggers now aren't the hardcore fanatics that flew it from day one. As much as I despite the Hispanos I don't have any problem with the CHog nor want I to ban it from AH, on the contrary my favourite target now since it gives you good points! It just shifted the balance of the game to a point where you no longer can talk of diversity of the usage of planes. That graph speaks the truth out so loud that noone can overhear it. Personally I would like the perk system to take this factor in account in much stronger way.

I am sure any F4U lover can build the required perk points quickly in a D, but the opportunistic, BFG- addicted quakeminds will be slowed down a bit.

Well, as far we Luftwobbles count HTC never has given in to any whines and I hope it will stay that way for the other side as well...

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »

BTW.. the F4u-1C has been used more in the 10 days of tour 12 than it was in all 36 days of tour 10.

Projected stats would show that the F6F-5, N1K2 and F4u-1D will all surpass the F4u-1C's tour 10 usage. The truth is, two bases are sitting 3k apart from each other with endless streams of fighters hitting head on. I went from a .0011 k/sec to .0017 k/sec. Those that look only for CV furballs should have even higher numbers than that.

The fights are simply fast and furious. Making the 1C land-based only would remove it from 50% of the battle. Of course, you will see N1K2 stats go through the roof as its only real compitition has been effectively removed.

AKDejaVu

Hooligan · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

Pyro:

This is a question to make sure I understand where you are coming from. I am going make a statement that I THINK matches your postion.

The arena is a better place (and more enjoyable for most players) when it is not dominated by a few aircraft. At this point the F4u-1C qualifies as "dominating" and this will be corrected via the perk system.

Is this statement more or less correct?

thanks,

Hooligan