Socialist health care

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Rolex

Many EU countries have higher productivity per work-hour than the U.S.  

Don't ya just hate facts and data?

Daimler hints at German job cuts[/size]

DaimlerChryslter gave German autoworkers near its Stuttgart home base an ultimatum:Be more productive or we'll move production line of the 2007 C-class sedan. The company wants to end the five-minutes-per-hour "Steinkuhler" breaks (named after the labor leader).  Other signs that the Germany factory worker has peaked include Opel's expanded production of the Zafira family car in Poland rather than Russelsheim (Opel's main German factory), and Siemens workers' agreement to work 40, not 35, hours a week.
Source: Roundel magazine September 2004

[Nash]

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[Ripsnort]

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[Torque]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm not quite sure why you see clothes on the emporer, but if I had to wait 6 months for a specialist, I'd consider that a system that fails.

It took me 2 days to see a specialist, and 2 weeks later I was finished with shoulder surgery.  My cost was $100. Employer picked up the rest.

Of course 50 million (some say 70) without healthcare is not a failure right? Give them all universal healthcare and lets see how long the wait is.

Aren't medical bills the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the States as well?

Working for Boeing and having guys like Perle in policy positions is just another form of govn't subsidized healthcare system. Then again it would be more like talking resources from others to put you ahead in the line.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Torque
Of course 50 million (some say 70) without healthcare is not a failure right? Give them all universal healthcare and lets see how long the wait is.

Aren't medical bills the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the States as well?

Working for Boeing and having guys like Perle in policy positions is just another form of govn't subsidized healthcare system. Then again it would be more like talking resources from others to put you ahead in the line.

Good point.  The health care package is calculated into the labor cost of the airplane. The Airlines rolls this down to the consumer eventually, so you paid for my health care.  Capitalism.

[Torque]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Good point.  The health care package is calculated into the labor cost of the airplane. The Airlines rolls this down to the consumer eventually, so you paid for my health care.  Capitalism.

Ok i get it now the taxes from those 50 million without healthcare are used for a bailout of Boeing which in turn paid for your healthcare.

Ah, Capitalism the best Democracy money can buy.

[Ripsnort]

Theres no doubt our coverage for all Americans is failing. Just as yours is failing to provide timely aid, and eventually will fall short on funding (which leads to poor health care services)

Here is a good article on the hundreds of bills that congress has considered this year alone

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa184.html

Summary:
With the exception of the tax-incentive approaches, most major health care reform proposals would dramatically increase government involvement in the health care market place. The result would almost inevitably be increased costs and decreased access to care.
Sounds familiar, eh?

Only solutions that build on a free market in health care will ultimately be successful in controlling costs and increasing access to care. Government involvement in health care has been steadily increasing for 30 years, with disastrous results. It is time to seek solutions in the power of the free market.

[ra]

Originally posted by Torque
Of course 50 million (some say 70) without healthcare is not a failure right?

You mean 50 million without heath INSURANCE?  That's not the same as 50 million without healthCARE, or US patients would be heading for Canada, not the other way around.

IMHO the 3 biggest problems with US health are:

-lack of market forces.  Most Americans have good health insurance provided by their employer.  They go to the doctor and receive only a tiny bill for whatever services are rendered.  They don't care how much the services really cost, so there is no incentive to shop around, and no incentive for health providers to compete for patients.  It's just a tug of war between the insurance companies  and the doctors.

-law suits.  It's insane, help us.  Doctors pay sky-high insurance rates, and they are afraid to forego any tests which may end up getting them sued.  A doctor risks his career every time he delivers a baby.

-illegal aliens.   At least 10 million and counting.  When they get hurt or sick they end up on the public dole.

There are lots of other problems, of course.   But I doubt universal health care would work in the US.  I'm not too sure it works all that well anywhere else either.

[Rolex]

I agree completely about facts and data, Ripsnort. Smug sarcasm and the posting of nonempirical 'news' will change neither the facts, nor the data.

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by ASTAC

My point is..where do we draw the line..how many aspects of our lives will become completely controolled by the government...Does it stop when we are standing in bread lines and have to have papers to travel from town to town or state to state?

Breadlines were invented before Communism.

And you just try flying, taking a train, or driving across the country with no ID.

[fd ski]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
We already subsidize our 'free' education.  I pay school taxes and do not have any children in school.  You do too ASTAC.

The problem with subsidizing healthcare (and there are many) falls to the general attitude of people not willing to accept responsibilty for thier own health.
Subsidizing healthcare to pay for people who simply refuse to take care of themselves is not what I would call a good thing.

In some ways, we already do subsidize it, as the escalation of health insurance is a side effect of that.

Same with any insurance.

That's true Skuzzy however it could be argued that some people don't care for their kids education a least bit, while others engage actively, and teachers waste an awful lot of productive time on the first lot.
Therefore it is almost the same as heathcare situation you were refering to.

No silver bullet yet

[Nash]

The "silver bullet" is to accept that some people were born stupid. Others were raised stupid.

Now you can turn your back on them, or pay for them. That's what the whole thing boils down to, really.