This is The End

[Tilt]

As an Aged player of AW you will know the origin of the ACFS term "Disney Town".

What is so different here?

I play Euro time so never see the massive Rook Population explosion so ften reffered to here.

In fact lately the rooks have been on the defencive territorially.

But I must admit that I and a few Sunday afternoon tried to interest Knights in a fight by taking one of their Northern bases........................ ... no one showed up until we had taken a base and threatened a 2nd. yet due to some wierd bug we had LVT's on theiur town for 10 mins unnoppose before we took it.

[xHaMmeRx]

I've always wondered why heavy bombers are allowed to drop from below 10000ft AGL. I've got no problems with the medium bombers dropping low, but B-17s and Lancs dropped from way up there. Sure, there were exceptions (Ploetsi and the dam-busting missions come to mind) but they were the exceptions. In the MA it has become the rule.

As for Dok's argument, I think most of you are missing his point. He is not complaining about the ENY system, the mis-use of plane types, or game-the-game mentality. His argument, and it is a valid one, is that a large contingent of players argued for and got a system to "balance" the arena. However, now that the arena is being "balanced" by this system, the non-existant bish-knit truce, which in theory was created to balance the arena under the old system, is still in effect. You can claim it's not all you want but, as Dok points out, a look at the bar dar tells the story. It's not always like that, but it is quite a bit of the time. What is really pissing him off, if I read it right, is all those who claim otherwise.

To Dok, I will share a part of a post I put on our squad message board to a squaddie who was having similar feelings about a different issue -

"I fly for one reason - to shoot down other people. I could care less if that's from the side with 5 bases or 50 bases. It just doesn't matter. The enjoyment is in the hunt and the kill. If the bad guys are attacking one of "my" bases, no problem. I will shoot them down there. If we are attacking one of their bases, fine. I will shoot them down there. If there's a big furball between 2 bases, that is where I will go. It's what I enjoy. It's what is fun for me. As long as I can find somewhere away from a horde (or find a spot where the horde is even on both sides!), I am happy.

It doesn't matter what else is going on in the arena - do what is fun for you. If you like JABO, go JABOing. If you like heavy bombers, take em up and drop some bombs. Do it in support of a base capture or hit some target that you want to hit. But remember, in the end, it doesn't matter. This isn't real life and nobody cares tomorrow who wins today. "

Hate to see anybody leave because they think the system is flawed. The first thing to realize in an on-line game is the system
is flawed. The only person who thinks the game is perfect is the programmer. Everyone else will find a flaw. Play it your way and the heck with the way anyone else plays it.

Hammer
netAces.org - Tips, Tactics and More!

[phookat]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
But when I see the arena has balanced numbers - or even when Rooks are outnumbered - and still the Bish/Knits insist on this "imaginary" truce (which I accept isn't official, but it's still happening and still being condoned), at that point it's clear that there's a different definition of "balance" that you want. If you wanted parity of numbers, then when you got them there should have been fairly even distribution of numbers in the MA. But there wasn't. Not for over a week now.

I really don't think this was intentional.  If there's a fight with Bish, I go there.  If there's a fight with Rooks, I go there.  I think most people operate the same way.  Sometimes statistically it might seem that there is a "truce", but it doesn't really exist.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by flyingaround
Wow!  Can't believe that using your "17 years" of perspective, you are quitting over ONE night of play.  That makes it at least appear that you are jumping the gun a wee bit.  ...

Please re-read what I posted. I said I was done in the MA for a while. I said I was still running Rangoon. I said I liked discussing the game here in the BBS. I did not say I was cancelling my account. That's all  a far cry from "I'm quiting," a far cry from "giving up" on AH.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Please do not apply selective reading to support your case either. I say what I mean to say, it's very clear.

Also, read the follow-ups to my message. Who are the name-callers? Who took the first shots at personal attacks? Why accuse me of something others are doing? Why cross that dangerous line?


I'm sure that most of those who take the time to contribute regularly in the BBS do fly in a balanced manner. But I can read a map, as can you all. And I can count dots and compare that to the total player numbers. As can you all.

This wasn't over one night or one base capture - as much as some seem to want to twist it that way. It's over what a lot of others in the BBS are also lamenting over - the rotten attitude, poor sportsmanship, and overall grotesque gameplay that infests the MA. That moment over A12 last night was simply when I knew I had had enough of it. Nothing more, nothing less. If you read stuff I've posted in the BBS lately, this is all perfectly consistent.


The question shouldn't be: "How can you decide this sucks in only 2 months back?". The question really is: "Is the MA that sucky that it turned you off so quick?". Just because you're used to it doesn't make it acceptable.

But ... if this is the kind of MA environment you all want, then enjoy it. Wallow in it. I just choose not to sip from the same trough for now. I'll try the CT, I may drop in on the DA and brush up on my dogfighting, and I have a large scenario to run. Maybe things will improve by New Years.

    -DoK

[kj714]

"The reason this doesn't add up to you is you don't have 17 years of playing, observing, contributing, and designing this kind of game in your background. What I see and what you see are completely different."

Sorry to hear you are having a bad experience, but the elite (for lack of a better word, not meant to be disparaging) of any culture usually have a different perspective on things than the masses. You have a very specific scenario in mind you would like to play. The guys bringing in the B-17's were probably having a blast.  If you're not having fun, it's time to go. Life is too short to put energy into an unnecessary thing like an online game, that is not positive experience for you.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by phookat
I really don't think this was intentional.  If there's a fight with Bish, I go there.  If there's a fight with Rooks, I go there.  I think most people operate the same way.  Sometimes statistically it might seem that there is a "truce", but it doesn't really exist.

I agree ... and I thought I made that clear, but maybe not. It is a symptom of the general attitude and behavior, not of specific planning.

Given the reactions to ENY, I think ENY reinforced the perception of constant, overwhelming Rook numbers. A perception I only used to see materialize one night a week for about 3 or 4 hours.

And this made it acceptable to gang up on Rooks all the time because, well, "they have numbers." Regardless of what looking at the roster might otherwise indicate. And once you get a gangbang rolling, its tough to stop. That whole group psychology thing.

    -DoK

[Furball]

Dok, you play in the CT?

Much nicer atmosphere, fights are great, strat is not really an issue.  Its great, just a shame we don't get the numbers in there!

[Nwbie]

Dok

From my perspective on that B-17 flight

All the bases within the surrounding 4 sectors had barracks porked, it required a 3 sector flight with a goon, I did one, it took me almost 40 mins to get there, that is literally a pain in the arse,
A12 was a constant trouble spot for the knits, the b-17 mission was the only one I have ever participated in, I never fly bombers and if you look at my score you would see that I probably shouldn't anyway... I look at it as trying to even out the playing field in that area, We had the same problem in the west with the Bishops, there was no truce, and if you ever were on the knits and saw someone claiming a truce, you can bet if I am on, I will be right there saying - fug the truce crap, this is supposed to be a 3 country war, ask anyone who flys regularly as a knit, most won't go along with it, only some of the new generals try to push it, it never really goes over, you are right, I see it all the time, there is a horde mentality, pretty much mostly people who want to vulch to pad their scores.
My opinion ack should be harder to kill to eliminate the vulching mentality
NwBie

[Furious]

Man, you got a persecution complex.  

There is no truce.  Water flows downhill, and so do the fights in the MA.  Which ever county is in the south/southeast gets extra special loving.   Always has and always will.



....and who cares about low level b17's.  It's ghey, but nowhere near as ghey as being able to strafe down a CV.

[Grimm]

As to the Truce,  Id like to venture a guess as to what it is and its origins.

The Rooks have been somewhat dominate in the MA for a while now.    This means Knight and Bishop pilots have been under the gun for a sometime.    

You go to fly and everyone is above you,  your always out numbered,  your bases are porked and your sick of it.   The reason in your mind is those Darn Rooks.

I would guess overall Rooks are presently "The most Hated" enemy.   This means that Knights and Bishops prefer to fight and best Rooks.    So,  The tendency for many in both countries is to take it to the Rooks.   This makes both Rook fronts hot with action.   Thus appearing a truce in effect where there is not real truce.  

DOK,
I can respect that if your not enjoying it, why do it?   But, I think perhaps a break and wait to see what developes in the next couple months.   As you know Winter is right around the corner for those of us in the North and that means alot more people flying.   Things might change some then.  

Iv enjoyed your recent participation in the community here and hope that you will be able to continue,  Whether flying or not.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by xHaMmeRx
...

As for Dok's argument, I think most of you are missing his point.

...

Thanks, I'm glad someone got it.

And I'm sure the guys who drove those B17's had a ball - who do you think invented using B17's as terror weapons anyway?

But ... consider a couple things ...

First, one of the operating rules in AW was that if you knowingly use a bug or loophole in the system - you were banned. Period. Many times there were "two week" periods when serious bugs were in the system or FE and people knew not to use them ... or else. Heavy bomber formations were put in so that the guys who took the time to get those ships to proper altitude had some chance of surviving the mission. Using them on the deck is an exploitation of that feature. Pure and simple.

Next, the reason 3-country arrangements usually work is that they self-balance. If one country has numbers, the other two can shift to fight them. If one country is smaller than the rest, they can't be picked on as easy because who ever becomes the bully exposes a flank. Unfortunately, neither of these dynamics seems to be working with this population. If they were, ENY wouldn't have been needed - nor would the Sunday night Rook horde ever have come to pass.

    -DoK

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Furball
Dok, you play in the CT?

Much nicer atmosphere, fights are great, strat is not really an issue.  Its great, just a shame we don't get the numbers in there!

I plan to give it a try.

    -DoK

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Furious
Man, you got a persecution complex.  

There is no truce.  Water flows downhill, and so do the fights in the MA.  Which ever county is in the south/southeast gets extra special loving.   Always has and always will.



....and who cares about low level b17's.  It's ghey, but nowhere near as ghey as being able to strafe down a CV.

Please re-read everything I said.

And I agree on strafing CV's ... and I been saying that right along with you for a while. CV's and CA's should require at least one torpedo hit to sink.  

      -DoK

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Grimm
As to the Truce,  Id like to venture a guess as to what it is and its origins.

The Rooks have been somewhat dominate in the MA for a while now.    This means Knight and Bishop pilots have been under the gun for a sometime.    

...

Yes, I guess I have the wrong impression about what I meant by "truce." I explained this a couple messages back.

     -DoK

[mars01]

Nothing for nothing Dok,

I have been flying sims since the the first MS Flight sim,  then Aces of the Pacific etc.  I played some AWIII and now AH, so you can step off the "I know it all, I'm the almighty authority soap box".

As for your crys about the rooks being outnumbered save them too because I think the whole community can chime in and say this hasn't been an issue for some time.  

A few months back the 13th TAS did a little tour around the countries.  We stayed Rook for about a month and a half and during the whole time I was seldomly outnumbered.  If you want to cry about being outnumbered switch to the Bish for a while, then you will have something to cry about.

It was the hypocricy of people saying they wanted balance and, when given it, prove that wasn't what they wanted at all. What they wanted was HT to take away someone else's advantage under the guise of "restoring balance" to the MA.

LOL, you plainly say here that you are pissed because your advantage was taken away.  Who's the hypocrit here?

And, for me at a personal level, well that makes the MA pretty intolerable. There are so many people working hard to make AH better - not just HTC. The guys like Fruda, Citabria, Waffle, Nopoop and so on who do awesome addons. The trainers, CM guys, and people who put together stats sites. And then you have this behavior of do whatever it takes so "I can get mine." That's one thing that does NOT add up.

Give me a break with the conspiricy theory.  Every country has to deal with the occasional getting ganged up upon, the fact that you have lost sight of this just goes to show how long you have been accustomed to being in a country that routinely has the numbers and is doing the ganging.  

This whine is perfect example that the ENY thing is working.

Next, it wasn't the field going down that bothered me. It's how it was done - by truce, by lawn-boy B17's, and with very, very little precision. It was that the feeling of "why fight it, just do like they do" started to creep into my equation.

Pllleeeeaaasssse is right.  I lost count of how many bases Rooks have taken this way.  Again the Hypocracy is yours.


You made this personal in your pompus reply, I simply disagreed with you.  I'm not lookin to get into some show down with you, I could care less about that.  I just disagree with how you are painting this picture.  

The MA game play has it's ups and downs and always did and always will.  Yeah dive bombing buffs is just gay, and you are correct about this being a issue, low alt "level" bombing shouldn't be an issue, they are easy targets.

Personally I could  care less about what bases are captured and who is winning the war as long as there are places to find some decent fights I am happy.

You have had some good well thought out posts in the past, I guess we can chalk this up to MA frustration, we've all been there.