Ki-84 Thoughts

[peregrin]

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
then do not cut and quote what I typed to fit your need!
this is what I said
"well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............"

I did not say make it faster than any plane, I did not say make it perform better than any plane, I did not even say perk it, nor did I say make it have better guns than any plane. I really don't give a damn what you do or HTC does with this plane or any plane

from all of my sim experience in different sims, which I might add does not qualify for anything, the ki-84s modeled could intially run down a P51D but the P51D would walk away from them on the long run, when A ki-84 went up against an F6F the outcome was determined by the pilot's skill

a Ki-84 will not have 4 cannons and 2 machine guns I do not think, either 2 cannons 2 machine guns or 4 cannons

also when the ki-84 reached certian excessive speeds along with any japan plane it would break apart especially if you pulled mass G manuevers.......

I do not have an agenda here, I was making a suggestion to please both sides..........


TY Karnak, for trying to correct him and standing up for my comment/opinion/suggestion

Whoa.  Look I wasn't trying to criticize anyone, or put words in anyones mouth.  No one needed to stand up for someones comments/opinions/suggestions.

All I'm saying is that the ki-84-dissappointed crowd is advocating for a faster, more maneuverable, higher firepower plane.  Perhaps not the fastest, most maneuverable, or with the higest firepower, but enough to be easily more capable than any non-perked plane.  Adding WEP (which I beleive Pyro said they were debating) to the currently modelled powerplant would probably make a good enough plane to satisfy most, while remaining unperked, but if a complete remodel was done, we're likely to see it perked, and perked hard.

I have no agenda.  I couldn't care less if the ki-84 becomes a perked superplane or stays unchanged.

Finally, TC I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was trying to use your post as an illustration of the general discussion.  If there was a button to quote small parts of 100 messages, I'd have used that instead. I didn't think ther was a danger of putting words in someones mouth if I was including the full quote (1st post).  Pardon me, if you felt misrepresented, attacked ot impugned.
--Peregrine.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by peregrin
All I'm saying is that the ki-84-dissappointed crowd is advocating for a faster, more maneuverable, higher firepower plane.  Perhaps not the fastest, most maneuverable, or with the higest firepower, but enough to be easily more capable than any non-perked plane.  

That is absolutely false.

Please demostrate where this has been said.  I have been, by far, the most vocal of the disappointed and I have never requested on insinuated such a thing.

You're putting words in our mouths.

[peregrin]

Originally posted by Karnak
Good job Bodhi.

There were a great many threads about the Ki-84 before it's release.  They included data that I do not have access to.  Pyro made his choices and no I'm not happy about them.  I never did manage to find any specific data on the roll rate or elevator heaviness, but the pilot accounts I did read did not make it sound as poor as the A6M.

Unfortunately finding the lock solid kind of evidence that you refer to is nigh impossible outside of US aircraft and maybe the Spitfire.

<snip -- portions of quoted post removed as I'm only commenting on the above P.>

Just guessing here, but I expect the AH control performance (elevator heaviness, roll rate, etc.) is probably primarily determined by the size, shape and position of the controll surfaces.  I expect the roll rate, for example, isn't a direct parameter in the model, but a consequence of the aileron size and maximum deflection.  After the initial model I'm sure they compare the model performace to data on the roll rate of the inital aircraft, but I'm guessing that handling is most directly to statistics that are better known than top speed.
--Peregrine.

[peregrin]

Originally posted by peregrin
All I'm saying is that the ki-84-dissappointed crowd is advocating for a faster, more maneuverable, higher firepower plane. Perhaps not the fastest, most maneuverable, or with the higest firepower, but enough to be easily more capable than any non-perked plane.




Originally posted by Karnak
That is absolutely false.

Please demostrate where this has been said.  I have been, by far, the most vocal of the disappointed and I have never requested on insinuated such a thing.

You're putting words in our mouths.

karnak,  jeeze, I'm bending over backwards here to try not to offend, and your still jumping all over me.  I spent like 30min posting that last one to make sure I didn't say anything unkind.  And at the end I apologized to Tequila Chaser.  Apologies on the BBS are rare, I thought that would count for something.  Oh well....

1.  Karnak, you are not the only person dissappointed in the ki-84.  So "ki84 dissappointed crowd" does not refer only to you.

2.  You do want the ki-84 to be faster don't you?

3.  You've said you don't like its high speed  handling,  elevator heaviness, and roll rate didn't you?  Doesn't that mean you would like it to be more maneuverable?

I'm not out to get anyone here, but if you still have a beef with me please PM.
--Peregrine.

[Karnak]

Well, Pyro did just state in the long "Ki-84 speed" thread that he now thinks that the roll rate is unrealistically low, so we should be seeing a change there.

As to faster, yes, but not that much faster.  I certainly don't think it should be in the La-7 or P-51D class of speed.

I wanted it to be a bit more competitive than it is now, but my estimation is that there is a very large gap between where it is now and "easily more capable than any non-perked plane."

Right now I think we'll see it settle at about ENY 20 to 30.  If the controls get lightened up for better handling at speed it will probably settle at about ENY 15.