Author Topic: gameplay idea for those who fight..  (Read 4777 times)

Offline DipStick

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gameplay idea for those who fight..
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2004, 08:29:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
To me, you are just plain annoying.

Guess our job is done here, move along....

Offline nopoop

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« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2004, 09:08:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DipStick
Do ya think?

Flying Timid 101


I enjoyed the film. The jest can be surmised in the first few minutes tho I watched it in it's entirety. What I enjoyed about it is it's the first film I've seen with a peek into a quasi military squad's typical sortie after seven years of flying online.

It's obvious that the goal of the squad is to work together as a team and to minimize the risk by doing so. Constant communication and updates by the pilot on "cap" in the situation. Targets were chosen to promote this and communication is used to minimize risks. They appear very good at it.

The film was a good demonstration of what the squad is all about. Many squads are no doubt formed on a similar basis. It's business. Clues are on the recruitment page of the website. And the COMPLETE lack of idle chatter in the film.

Gravitating towards a military style squad would depend on ones competitiveness, personallity type and to a certain point a persons real life envirement.

In my case, I'm a type "b".  I'm in a high stress job, so the last thing I want to do is come home, "worry" about my score, if I'm doing "well", or "How I'm precieved" in this game. I play for the fights, the laughs and the release. I want to have fun, without the stress. I've got more than enough stress as it is.

So..

You go !! But when I log on I wanna talk to squadies about kids, grandkids, cooking, shooting etc.

Don't take it wrong, I have NOTHING to prove here.

Having a place to fight with like minded individuals ala' furball Island or the Island in the center of OZ is what I would enjoy.

And after watching the film there's not a reason on earth you couldn't come over and do your squadie thing there. We're easy, will stay low and fight anybody.

How else do you get nose prints on the moniter ??

BTW I would suggest a tour in the weeds. You don't have to look at your score. The tempo is a bit quicker and the nose prints come off with windex.

Who knows, you might like it.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2004, 04:46:56 AM »
Sax - interesting post -

Believe it or not, I was able to relate to a lot of what you said, although my glory days were with Brand-W, c2000. In my experience, the camaraderie in that game was greater, possibly because of greater intimacy owing to the smaller number of people. At $2/hour, the membership was somewhat selective, and not the rush of bums on seats who can afford $14.95/month. People went out of their way to help the noobs, ie. none of this Try Alt+F4 crap we get here, which might have been funny once, had it not gone on to become part of the unofficial initiation rites. Trainers in WB got their game time free of charge, therefore many people wanted to become trainers (both for the kudos and to avoid those three digit $$$ monthly bills) and worked hard to elevate their skills in order to qualify. With so many people working the self improver route, the gameplay standard in WB was considerably higher than it is here. But such a program would not work here, where the savings would only amount to $14.95/month. Unfortunately, the pricing structure means that we will never get what you or I would consider to be the "ideal" gameplay; we will always get the gameplay model that generates the most AH accounts.



In AH, I realised I was in a flying zoo the moment I cleared a guy's 6, only to find a N1K on my own 6, with none of the ten "friendlies" around me offering a 6 call or giving me any assistance of any kind! To top it off, when I said on vicinity channel that things might be better if we worked as a team more, the very guy whose life I'd just saved accused me of having an attitude problem. :eek: And that was the defining moment when I knew that I was playing "Every-man-for-himself High"

The lack of an RPS is supposed to mean "more choices", but what it means in effect is always coming up against the same 3-4 plane types over and over and over again, often being used as crutchplanes to obviate the need to learn to fly a lesser plane well.

People laughed when I said we were going to need more structure in the game in order to hold our interest......
Quote
Now a days it's all about #'s not names and thats to bad cause even tho it's still the best flite game to be had--it deffinately doesn't have the same character.

And that folks is why players like lazs--Hooligan--Drex--WldThing--Apache--my own squaddies--Rude-Beemer-and more are taking extended breaks---they wanna fite talent not talents.
......they're not laughing now.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2004, 08:31:05 AM »
I don't know... it got a chuckle out of me... Are yu seriously saying that anyone in this thread is advocating an RPS or axis vs allied in any way?   That game that you are getting all teary eyed about was ruined by that kind of thinking...

we all played there and we all left because of the rps and allied vs axis...

Look at the ct... it is what you are wanting and it is deserted most of the time.... 90% of the time it is (or was) a lopsided plane set with most players gallantly gravitating to the side with the best planes.   I don't want an MA like that.

nopoop is right as far as I'm concerned.  I'm not a fighter pilot nor do I pretend to be... I like to fly simulated WWII planes against each other for the challenge of it and to see how different styles of planes and ord do against each other.   I want to talk about the kidws or the house or cars or guns or something with guys I like when there is a break in the action...  even considering doing what those mustang guys do would embarass me.

lazs

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2004, 10:18:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know... it got a chuckle out of me... Are yu seriously saying that anyone in this thread is advocating an RPS or axis vs allied in any way?   That game that you are getting all teary eyed about was ruined by that kind of thinking...

we all played there and we all left because of the rps and allied vs axis...
I partly agree with what you're trying to say, but you needed to go a little further. By the way, Apache and Rude's names we mentioned in Sax's post, and they'd both like to see an RPS.

As to why RPS/Axis v Allied went wrong in WB, it need not have happened. The RPS was fine in the days before axis v. allied. That's because all four sides had the exact same range of planes to choose from at all times, so no side had an advantage over any other in terms of plane choice.

However, in the axis v. allied WW2A, the RPS was flawed because not all aircraft that flew in WW2 were modelled in WB. So the RPS had to fudge and compromise in order to try to balance the sides. And *THAT* is what did not work. The RPS concept would have worked better if iEN could have been persuaded to act upon my suggestion of locking the sides to prevent sideswitching to the side that had the best planes on any given day. In the event, they increased the minimum interval between side switches from 15 mins. to 60 mins. Too little, too late.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2004, 10:52:28 AM »
I think the main reason people have a problem with the "late war uber rides" is because since they are fast, nobody bothers to learn how to fight in them.  

It is a pain in the bellybutton if you are in a P-40 (for instance) and some La-7 just bore n zooms timidly when he could take advantage of the fact that his plane also turns better and actually mix it up.  Furthermore, even if he is unable to "mix it up" successfully, he can take advantage of the tremendous acceleration and top speed difference to leave the fight if it goes bad at any time.  

But most people fly the La-7 because it is fast, so they never bother to actually learn how to fight in the plane.. just make a couple timid passes and orbit while calling for friendlies, or run for some ack.  

Same goes for the P-fiftyrun.. the Dorun.. the run09.. etc.  You can basically get quite aggressive in those planes and STILL leave at any time because they have an acceleration and top speed advantage over the rest of the planeset.  But since people don't feel like taking the time to actually learn how to fight, they'd rather cherry-pick a 1v4 (like the 4 needed help) or make timid passes if they happen to get caught in some disadvantageous situation (only 2-3 on 1.. co-alt, etc).  

I just get frustrated knowing that plane X out-everythings whatever plane I'm in, wishing the timid bore n zoomer would grow some damn balls and mix it up.  

Being aggressive doesn't mean "Spit V style yank and bank" fighting, in my opinion.  It simply means using your planes capabilities to the fullest extent in an effort to kill your opponent.  Obviously a 190A-8 isn't going to out-turn a Spit V, but that doesn't mean you can't take whatever energy advantage you started with and try to convert it to a lethal firing position.  If you don't get one, THEN leave.  Don't just make one timid pass and go "Oh, the lamer won't stop turning, what a puss" and head for the nearest ack.  

That kind of flying is simply boring.

Offline Clifra Jones

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« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2004, 01:20:36 PM »
Well, I've only been here for a month and this horse has been beaten repeatedly. Fact is no one is going to change anyones mind. One thing is that there is a lot of "it's my money and I'll do what I want and don't you suggest anything that may prevent that" attitude in here. Not saying that's wrong just saying it prevents a lot of creative things that would make the MA more fun IMO.

Offline GreenCloud

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« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2004, 01:41:03 PM »
what a frikn waste of typing..why do you gusy type so much..lolol


Mars..poor old urb got cut off when AH2 came around..his comp couldnt keep up..Hes got his own business ..making commercials for TV...

He had bougth a G4..then just a G5 recently..and with all the video editing equipment..hes been spending alot of money latley..and he just got married...lolol..he will be back soon though..He also says he misses flying with all of you...


I love to furball.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2004, 02:55:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

we all played there and we all left because of the rps and allied vs axis...

Look at the ct... it is what you are wanting and it is deserted most of the time.... 90% of the time it is (or was) a lopsided plane set with most players gallantly gravitating to the side with the best planes.   I don't want an MA like that.
I don't disagree that the CT is deserted at times, but I don't think that is because of limited plane set and/or axis v. allied. Think back to WB. The WW2A came along - axis v. allied, but the four country MA was still there. Indeed, there were several player initiatives by guys like thrax= to get people to migrate back to the MA. But it never happened. Once an arena has become established as "the place where most people go", it's very difficult to change that pattern, without physically locking one of the arenas to force people to use another.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2004, 04:18:12 PM »
what a frikn waste of typing..why do you gusy type so much..lolol

Cause ... unlike you ... we CAN type ... :D

Tell Mr. "Silky Smooth" Urbacus to get his arse back in here ... I miss wingin' with him.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Redd

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« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2004, 04:55:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
I don't disagree that the CT is deserted at times, but I don't think that is because of limited plane set and/or axis v. allied. Think back to WB. The WW2A came along - axis v. allied, but the four country MA was still there. Indeed, there were several player initiatives by guys like thrax= to get people to migrate back to the MA. But it never happened. Once an arena has become established as "the place where most people go", it's very difficult to change that pattern, without physically locking one of the arenas to force people to use another.







The people that are left in WB are the orginal 10 % of the player base that wanted that type of permanent set-up.

The other 90% left. (Many of them came here)

So effectively, in making a vocal 10% of the player base happy, they alienated 90% of their customer base.  A fairly valuable lesson I would think.

This post, from a long teerm WB player (not me) is from WB in regard to axis/allies permanent split, and the divisiveness it can cause . There are elements of this you notice in the CT.



-----------------------------------------------

The "rest of us" don't know what's good (or in this case bad) for you. The majority of players may prefer an Axis/Allied split, but that does NOT mean it is healthy for the community or the game as a whole.

People are taking sides (axis/allied) and there is real hate being created over politics and events from a war that ended almost 60 years ago. THAT IS THE CANCER ON THE COMMUNITY!!

Adding new planes only makes it worse.

Adjusting FMs only makes it worse.

Lowering the price and enticing old players back only makes it worse.

Not one thing done in the past 3+ years has mitigated or slowed the increasing levels of hate and animosity between the Axis/Allied camps in WBs. It's tearing the community apart!

I can't state it any clearer than I already have, but I will try.

The community is simply not mature enough collectively to handle the Axis/Allied split. Today it's the Ki-44. Go back to day 1 of the WWIIA and 90% or more of all of the *****ing on AGW and ch100 since then is Axis/Allied related. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

With color-wars we had the arena filled with Spits/F6Fs/etc, but what you and many others fail to realize is that "we" (the community) were the ones flying the damn things!.....

Get it?...Is is sinking in yet?.......

When given the oppurtunity to do the right thing, "we" (the community) never do!! "We" gravitate to the uber-plane of the day. "We" allow 60 year old politics and predjudices to seep into our gameplay. "We" refuse to balance numbers. "We" vultch, gang-bang, conga-line bombers, exploit ToT, exploit GVs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

We the players are our own worst enemies, because "we" (the community) are selfish. IEN has to step forward and make the hard decisions. The players have never and will never police themselves. The only way that the community will heal the rift is if IEN forces the two factions (Axis/Allied) to intermingle. It's the only possible way to wash away all of the filth and bagage that has collected over the past few years.

I simply don't understand how you can ignore the problems CRUTCH. You only have to read AGW to see the festering disease created by the Axis/Allied split that is killing the community. Sure a lot of people still play WBs (or at least keep an account open), but can you really say that the community is still alive and intact?
I come from a land downunder

Offline Midnight

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gameplay idea for those who fight..
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2004, 05:06:12 PM »
I'm done worrying about these generalized timid flyer definitions being pasted on me and my squad (the 412th FS) by you turn-ball players with poor skills.

Quick comparisons of the stats reveal that although your K/T numbers are average, your hit percentages are mostly below 7.5% exception Leviathn with 18.905% and as low as 3.7% for one of you I looked up.

Basically, that tells me you guys spend a lot of time firing into open air wishing you knew some better BFMs to gain position on your intended targets.

OTOH, I spend at least 10 minutes every flight grabbing altitude and flying well over 20 virtual miles to get to the fight. Then I spend (when lucky enough to RTB) at least another 5 minutes flying home. Even through all of that, I manage to get an average (all tours this year) K/T of 7.91 and H% of 11.4%

Basically, that tells me that when I get to the fight, I am fighting just as much as you and hitting my targets more effectively than you. Timid I am not. Fast, Agressive and Hard-hitting - you better believe it.

comparisons obtained by AH score pages. Some players used in making this comparision - BGBMAW, DipStick, Lazs, Mars01, Leviathn, Redd, Nopoop.

I rest my case. you turn-ballers will just have to keep a look out for high Mustangs.

Offline mars01

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« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2004, 05:31:43 PM »
Now this makes all the sense in the world midnight.  If your worried about what anyone thinks you are in trouble.  Fly for yourself and your buds.

First problem you are having - score doesn't mean a thing, judging anyone bassed on score only, just allows you to make ignorant assumptions.

Second problem - Fighter hit percentage is also a stupid number to base anything on.  Point in case - If you are in fighter mode, which I am most of the time, and you shoot at the ack, gvs or anything other than a fighter, which I do most of the time,  your hit percentage goes way down.  

Third, if you are wondering how good any of us are all you have to do is ask us to the DA.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2004, 05:40:23 PM »
Midnight and all the folks I know from his squad don't really meet my definition of timid.  Granted I don't watch films that people post here... but then again most people will take one particular film and go "THERE!  THERE!  TIMID!!  SEE, SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!!!"... you can't really make any general assumptions based on one incident.  

I don't recall every single fight I've had with them, but typically I'll run into 1 or 2 that are either co-alt or slightly higher than me and get into a fairly decent fight.  Just because they don't hit autolevel and let you kill them doesn't make them timid... they are actually trying to kill you.  Timid people just kind of fly around ineffectually waving their purses.  

It is possible to be a Boom n Zoomer and still be aggressive.  Bore n Zoom is my phrase for the clueless tools that fly around in the runstangs, el gays, and run90/09's and lack any kind of balls whatsoever.

Offline Stang

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« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2004, 05:41:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
Quick comparisons of the stats reveal that although your K/T numbers are average, your hit percentages are mostly below 7.5% exception Leviathn with 18.905% and as low as 3.7% for one of you I looked up.

Basically, that tells me you guys spend a lot of time firing into open air wishing you knew some better BFMs to gain position on your intended targets.


Actually, the reality is quite the reverse, except for Levi, who we know is just a freak  :D

When you are furballing in a slower more early war ride, most of the guys you are shooting at are pulling separation as you fire, making it much more difficult to get a high hit % unless you get a deflection shot just off your nose.  If you are BnZing in a 51, you most of the time will be bearing down on your prey at high speed with a quick rate of closure, firing at inside of 250 yards and have a much easier solution for a kill shot.  That explains the difference in the hit %.  It's not that these guys shoot worse necessarily, it's the shots that they take are usually much harder to land hits with, and coincidentally their hit %'s might be a little lower than a BnZ pilot.